My AX8 vs Helix LT Journey

peteri

Clarky said:

peteri said:

Just to update a little. 

Ive been toying with the idea of the Axe-FX II, the only real reason being that I can run two amp blocks and therefore not have to compromise on the four core sounds. 

But thats a lot of money just for that when you include a floorboard! And it’s not so tiny at the AX8. 

So today changed my mindset a bit. Viewed the preset as a two channel amp. So I have a blues one with a Vibroverb and Dumble, then an AC30 patch, then a Plexi etc. 

It means patches rather than scenes. But the delay is so small for my use. Completely fine. 

Vibroverb AA is sounding great!

think on this...
you have scenes and controllers
you can turn assign the boost switch to a pedal to change a riff tone to a soloing tone..
that is essentially two amp channels without X-Y switching the amp [I do this with the 5153Red]
you can use scenes of morphing to clean the amp further and 'fix up' the tone..
so that's 3 tones and you've still not switched X-Y..
experiment with amp types that can work well from clean right through to hi-gain..
you can get surprising results..
changing tones does not have to mean changing amp.. 
you can be smart and creative with 1.. this will result in seamless tone transitions..

Yep - you're right I can do that, what I've enjoyed is also complete choice over modifiers (meaning treble booster for the AC, TS for the Fender).

But challenge accepted! Will try and do it all with something tonight

DavusPG

How would you use modifiers to swap from a treble boost to a TS?

If you're taking about the AX8 then I think the only way to change the drive type is X/Y

Unless you mean attaching modifiers to the parameters within the drive block and changing those?

Clarky

peteri said:

Clarky said:

peteri said:

Just to update a little. 

Ive been toying with the idea of the Axe-FX II, the only real reason being that I can run two amp blocks and therefore not have to compromise on the four core sounds. 

But thats a lot of money just for that when you include a floorboard! And it’s not so tiny at the AX8. 

So today changed my mindset a bit. Viewed the preset as a two channel amp. So I have a blues one with a Vibroverb and Dumble, then an AC30 patch, then a Plexi etc. 

It means patches rather than scenes. But the delay is so small for my use. Completely fine. 

Vibroverb AA is sounding great!

think on this...
you have scenes and controllers
you can turn assign the boost switch to a pedal to change a riff tone to a soloing tone..
that is essentially two amp channels without X-Y switching the amp [I do this with the 5153Red]
you can use scenes of morphing to clean the amp further and 'fix up' the tone..
so that's 3 tones and you've still not switched X-Y..
experiment with amp types that can work well from clean right through to hi-gain..
you can get surprising results..
changing tones does not have to mean changing amp.. 
you can be smart and creative with 1.. this will result in seamless tone transitions..

Yep - you're right I can do that, what I've enjoyed is also complete choice over modifiers (meaning treble booster for the AC, TS for the Fender).

But challenge accepted! Will try and do it all with something tonight

experiment:
amp: 5153Blue
set it up so you have a nice riffing tone
Scene1 = riff / Scene2 = Solo / Scene3 = Clean

assign the Scene Controller to the Input-Drive to control the amount of gain per scene
Scene1 = 60 / Scene2 = 100 / Scene3 = 10

at the end of the Grid place 3 GEQ blocks in parallel, bypass=mute
these will be switched on individually per scene
scene1:GEQ1=on/GEQ2=off/GEQ=off
scene2:GEQ1=off/GEQ2=on/GEQ=off
scene3:GEQ1=off/GEQ2=off/GEQ=on

GEQ1 = flat EQ, level=0 
GEQ2 = sweeten EQ [maybe cut 4k a little], level=5 [to boost when you solo]
GEQ3 = sweeten EQ [the low input-drive setting will thin out the tone, so fix-up by boosting top and bottom], level will need a boost too

compressor: place in front of the amp and turn this on with Scene3 [clean]

these are rough settings off the top of my head...
so for example, Scene Controller Scene3=10 may not clean up quite enough or maybe you'd want to allow a little more dirt in..
this all depends upon the input-drive setting you have in the amp block to start with

peteri

Thanks - I will.

Last night, I was experimenting with the 5150 Red, too much gain to get a nice clean - annoyed I didn't think of the blue.

Best I came up with was crunch, riff and lead with a Friedman then clean with a Fender. And that sounds great. Will try your idea - which is bound to work and then I get cross with myself

peteri

Just checked - can only run two GEQ blocks on the AX8, but I can also run two Filter blocks - so sure I can work it out

Clarky

peteri said:

Thanks - I will.

Last night, I was experimenting with the 5150 Red, too much gain to get a nice clean - annoyed I didn't think of the blue.

Best I came up with was crunch, riff and lead with a Friedman then clean with a Fender. And that sounds great. Will try your idea - which is bound to work and then I get cross with myself

with the 5153Red, try [in addition to Scene Controller on the input-drive] kicking in a filter block before the amp
leave the EQ in the filter block flat and set the level to a very low value so you are reducing the signal level entering the amp..
alternatively, place a compressor before the amp and set the level very low
personally I'd do both.. compressor first / level=0 -> filter / level=-10 or more
the GEQ that kicks in after the amp replaces the lost level and fixes up the EQ

I know that in the real world this would never be practical, however this is not the real world..
the modelling environment will allow you to goof with the impossible and the ridiculous..
some of the outcomes can be highly surprising..

ok so you may not find anything you like tone wise from doing this..
however, the experiment is well worth it..
because it gets you thinking outside of the traditional "amp'n'stomps" box and so encourages a more creative approach to preset design..

using this approach, I discovered that my absolute favourite clean tone for funk is of all things.. 
a JCM800 dialled right back...

Clarky

peteri said:

Just checked - can only run two GEQ blocks on the AX8, but I can also run two Filter blocks - so sure I can work it out

you also have PEQ and VOL [if it's only levels you need to manipulate]

guitarfishbay

Did you check out the 6505+ rhythm bright channels yet?  I prefer that one to the 5153 blue, should also clean up pretty as well

DavusPG

As Clarky said, it's all about thinking outside the box.

I'll have to try your GEQ block method, but I've been doing the following:

I have scene controller 1 attached to input trim, gain and master volume 
Scene controller 2 is attached to the cab block to control level on a scene by scene basis and means that delay and reverb trails don't suddenly drop in volume if you change from a louder scene to a quieter one.... say after your epic solo you want the trails to ring out loud and clear, they will do. If you use the scene level in the output block, you won't get this. 

This method gives me 4 scenes (more if you wanted) going from clean, to crunch, to heavy crunch, to lead.

Then you can add and subtract filter or GEQ blocks & FX per scene as desired.

If it helps I'd be happy to post a preset later tonight, but I learnt it all from the scene controller vid I linked to earlier in this thread.

The 5150 Blue cleans up a treat if you use scene controllers as does the Cornford, JCM800 and Small Box. I'm sure most of them do to be honest. For best results I switch to spilt humbucker for clean.

The boost is also a great way to instantly thicken up a sound


 

peteri

Thanks - agreed, and I'd not thought of the cab level idea, will try all tonight/tomorrow.

@DavusPG - pm'd for the preset please!

Clarky

DavusPG said:

How would you use modifiers to swap from a treble boost to a TS?

If you're taking about the AX8 then I think the only way to change the drive type is X/Y

Unless you mean attaching modifiers to the parameters within the drive block and changing those?

you can't change what's loaded..
you'd have to switch X-Y

peteri

@Clarky You're a genius! Wiz'd awarded - took maybe 15 minutes to get that 5153 blue idea working - sounds amazing!

Any idea how to clear a block 'Y' value (to clear the amp I no longer need)?

Thanks so much

guitarfishbay

I don't think you need to clear a Y block value.  At least on the Axe FX 2 there's always a Y block option available at the default setting if you use it or not

peteri

ah - ok thanks, was trying to save CPU

John_A

As a current Helix user thinking of giving the AX8 a try this all looks a bit of a piss on

guitarfishbay

I have absolutely no idea what a piss on is to be honest

John_A

guitarfishbay said:

I have absolutely no idea what a piss on is to be honest

It's a northern expression meaning a difficult way of doing things

Jonathanthomas83

John_A said:

guitarfishbay said:

I have absolutely no idea what a piss on is to be honest

It's a northern expression meaning a difficult way of doing things

If you heard what we hear, you’d piss on anything to get it ;-)

guitarfishbay

Ah ok.  Haven't heard that one and I thought I was in the North!

To be honest I can't be dealing with complex stuff either.  All my scene changes are either block on/block off, or X/Y switching.  I have volume and delay on the volume pedal, so when I reduce the volume on the volume pedal my delay comes in for a wet gritty clean, and when I push it forward I get my dry high gain sound again... but that's really it for fancy stuff.

Jonathanthomas83

It’s whatever works for you isn’t it :-)

I can see the benefit of Clarky’s approach on the Axe FX too, let alone to get around the limitations of the AX8. Would reap benefits on CPU and gapless changing etc.