Live (professional!!) debut on lap steel this Saturday

jpfamps

I will be making my live debut on lap steel this coming Saturday.

This was something was 2016 New years resolution, so a bit late, but probably better for it.

Jimbro66

Playing what sort of music @jpfamps?

jpfamps

Country, Western Swing and Rock and Roll.

BigMonka

Great stuff @jpfamps I love a bit of lap steel. Got any photos of your lap steel?

jpfamps

BigMonka said:

Great stuff @jpfamps I love a bit of lap steel. Got any photos of your lap steel?

I have, but am unsure how to get them up on the forum!!

It's a 1949 National double 8 string.

It looks like this:

https://www.bananas.com/products/national-1948-grand-console-double-neck-8-string-lap-steel-no-case

I'm using A6 and a variation of E13 on the two necks.

Winny_Pooh

London gig? Where?

jpfamps

The Stable in Aldgate / Whitechapel.

ToneControl

I have two 8 strings now, still not sure what tuning I want to use

jpfamps

6th tunings are the basis of virtually all the popular 8 string tunings, with C6 and A6 the most commonly used. 

Any 6th based tuning will be a good starting point.

The advantage of the 6th tunings are you have major and minor triads under the bar, and you can harmonize lines in 3rds and 6ths.

I started on A6 which is a tuning commonly used for Western Swing.

The advantage of A6 is that you should know where chords are if you play guitar as you will be used to using chord shapes with the root on the A string.

E13 (of which there are a few common variations) is another very popular tuning for Western Swing as you have jazzier chords available to you, including dominant and diminished.

Again if you play guitar you should know where the chords are with an E tuning.

On the E13 neck I actually use a combination of the Leon Mcauliffe E13, and the Don Helms E6; I have lost the bottom E and gained a G# on the top string.

This allows me to still play some jazzier chords, but also Don Helms / Hank Williams-style on the top 5 strings.

Anyhow I should get out more..............

robinbowes

Learning lap steel is something I'd like to do. How did you get into it? Where did you start?

R.

Kebabkid

Good luck!

BigMonka

jpfamps said:

BigMonka said:

Great stuff @jpfamps I love a bit of lap steel. Got any photos of your lap steel?

I have, but am unsure how to get them up on the forum!!

It's a 1949 National double 8 string.

It looks like this:

https://www.bananas.com/products/national-1948-grand-console-double-neck-8-string-lap-steel-no-case

I'm using A6 and a variation of E13 on the two necks.

Now that is a proper vintage instrument, amazing!
I struggle to play my six string lap steel, let alone a double necked 8 stringer!

Jimbro66

jpfamps said:

Country, Western Swing and Rock and Roll.

jpfamps said:

BigMonka said:

Great stuff @jpfamps I love a bit of lap steel. Got any photos of your lap steel?

I have, but am unsure how to get them up on the forum!!

It's a 1949 National double 8 string.

It looks like this:

https://www.bananas.com/products/national-1948-grand-console-double-neck-8-string-lap-steel-no-case

I'm using A6 and a variation of E13 on the two necks.

Excellent stuff. Very much a man after my own heart. I've played quite a lot of that sort of thing on 8-string steel and also 8-string resonator guitar at acoustic gigs. Very similar tunings too.

That's a really nice national you have there

I'd love to be at that gig but I'm touring in France at the mo. Have a great one.

jpfamps

Kebabkid said:

Good luck!

Thanks!

Hopefully we won't have too many Les Dawson moments.....

jpfamps

robinbowes said:

Learning lap steel is something I'd like to do. How did you get into it? Where did you start?

R.

I was listening to a lot of Western Swing, Hank Garland etc mainly to try to get some more swing styling into my playing.

I was havering whether to have a stab at learning lap steel, and I mentioned this to a band mate who had bought himself a new router, decided to make a lap steel (which happened to be an 8 string) and then decided it was too hard to play, so he lenat it to me.

Co-incidentally I started working a bit with someone who is an excellent lap steel player, and he got us started on A6 tuning.

To be honest there is no real need to start with an 8 string; an inexpensive 6 string will be absolutely fine, but make sure that the the string spacing is wider than standard guitar spacing; many of the really budget lap steels I've seen use guitar bridges.

For reference Fender 6 string laps steel spacing is 10.8 mm.

Re instructional material, there is plenty of info on C6 tuning, including a couple of DVDs by the superb player Cindy Cashdollar.

There is also a Mel Bay book on C6, although I've not read this.

Eddie Rivers (Asleep At The Wheel) has done some good Youtube lessons using A6 tuning.

For E13 or any of the other tunings (eg B11), there isn't much out there, so you are on your own a bit.

Jimbro66

@robinbowes, Just to add a couple of learning sources: Troy Brenningmeyer has a number of good online lessons teaching the basics. I also found a lot of useful information on using different tunings in a video on 8-string reso from the late Mike Auldridge. It translates directly to lap steel.

The book Lap Steel Guitar by Andy Volk contains lots of useful information on instruments, players, tunings, etc.

Apart from learning the basics a lot of tips on technique can be picked up by watching performances of great players either on You Tube or, better still, at gigs. I picked up quite a bit by watching Jeremy Wakefield when he was touring with Wayne Hancock and also from watching and jamming with BJ Cole.

By the way, using a console steel, i.e. one on legs, or placing a lap steel on a keyboard stand allows you (if you feel inclined) to stand and also wear a guitar. It makes it harder to play steel and get the intonation spot-on but gives an additional voice in something like a rockabilly three-piece.

IMO one of the hardest things about steel playing is getting the intonation right on the higher frets. Don Helms was a master at that.

jpfamps

Jimbro66 said:

IMO one of the hardest things about steel playing is getting the intonation right on the higher frets. Don Helms was a master at that.

Indeed. I'm making a few excursions up the dusty end doing some of Don Helms's parts.

Our piano player has perfect pitch too (!), which as a well-renowned steel player I knon said "is his problem not yours".

Jimbro66

jpfamps said:

Jimbro66 said:

IMO one of the hardest things about steel playing is getting the intonation right on the higher frets. Don Helms was a master at that.

Indeed. I'm making a few excursions up the dusty end doing some of Don Helms's parts.

Our piano player has perfect pitch too (!), which as a well-renowned steel player I know said "is his problem not yours".

LOL

jpfamps

Jimbro66 said:

@robinbowes, Just to add a couple of learning sources: Troy Brenningmeyer has a number of good online lessons teaching the basics. I also found a lot of useful information on using different tunings in a video on 8-string reso from the late Mike Auldridge. It translates directly to lap steel.

The book Lap Steel Guitar by Andy Volk contains lots of useful information on instruments, players, tunings, etc.

Apart from learning the basics a lot of tips on technique can be picked up by watching performances of great players either on You Tube or, better still, at gigs. I picked up quite a bit by watching Jeremy Wakefield when he was touring with Wayne Hancock and also from watching and jamming with BJ Cole.

By the way, using a console steel, i.e. one on legs, or placing a lap steel on a keyboard stand allows you (if you feel inclined) to stand and also wear a guitar. It makes it harder to play steel and get the intonation spot-on but gives an additional voice in something like a rockabilly three-piece.

IMO one of the hardest things about steel playing is getting the intonation right on the higher frets. Don Helms was a master at that.

By the way a good tip from a friend of mine who plays (mainly) pedal steel is to practice with a tone in the background so you get used to getting the pitch right.

One of the problems I encountered was practising with no pitch reference, was that you end up playing in tune with your self, but not with anything else.

Jimbro66

jpfamps said:

By the way a good tip from a friend of mine who plays (mainly) pedal steel is to practice with a tone in the background so you get used to getting the pitch right.

One of the problems I encountered was practising with no pitch reference, was that you end up playing in tune with yourself, but not with anything else.

That's a really good point. It's also why it's so important to be able to hear the rest of the band clearly when gigging. It's unnerving if the on-stage sound is pants and you are not sure if you are totally in tune with the band. Guitar is a lot easier from that point of view.

jpfamps

Jimbro66 said:

jpfamps said:

By the way a good tip from a friend of mine who plays (mainly) pedal steel is to practice with a tone in the background so you get used to getting the pitch right.

One of the problems I encountered was practising with no pitch reference, was that you end up playing in tune with yourself, but not with anything else.

That's a really good point. It's also why it's so important to be able to hear the rest of the band clearly when gigging. It's unnerving if the on-stage sound is pants and you are not sure if you are totally in tune with the band. Guitar is a lot easier from that point of view.

Hopefully I won't find this out the hard way!!

We're a trio of steel, accoustic guitar and piano (with vocals), so hopefully on stage volume is not an issue.