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In this Discussion
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PC upgrade
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Comments
When I say recording I mean guitar ideas mainly, I don’t do full tracking with midi drums and mixing, etc. Though it’d be nice it’s purely to record guitar riffs and chord progressions to send to band mates.
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
But as @Jock68 said - get a good processor. Great thing about desktop PCs is that everything else is upgradeable, usually just plug and play stuff.
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
Definitely look for something with the OS on an SSD.
The processor in that first one would be fine. Remember desktop processors are significantly faster than laptop ones. The i3-7100 (the slowest 7th gen desktop i3) scores better than some 7th gen i7 laptop processors on Passmark:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2863&cmp[]=2924
The desktop i3 does have hyperthreading but if the budget is there, it probably be better to get an i5 to get the extra physical cores rather than virtual, but a 6th or 7th generation i3 would be more than enough for his stated uses. An SSD with an i3 will be faster for everyday use than an i5 with a conventional drive though.
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
If it was me....my first move would be to try a fresh install of Windows 10 on your machine.
As follows.
Backup up your W7 image with Macrium Reflect to external drive. Back up all of your W7 drivers with free software Double Driver (to external drive).
Wait until the 17th of this month (for the latest version of W10) and then upgrade (not fresh install) your pc by using the free upgrade that is still available (search windows accessibility upgrade).
See if your software works in W10 or if you can find a work around.
Don't worry if your machine feels sluggish, or even very sluggish - You are going to Fresh Install next.
The upgrade has activated a licenced version of W10 on your machine. You can now fresh install.
Download W10 onto a 8gb USB stick using the Media Creation Tool.
Fresh install W10.(Custom install).
Fix any missing drivers by directing device manager towards your W7 driver backup file. (this is fine for now).
Re install all of your software.
Enjoy your free new lease of life that your pc now has.
If it is not great.....just go back to W7 using your saved image.
If you then look for a new pc......CCL Computers are cheap and great. And have been for 20 years.
Decent machine for £250 to £300 that will satisfy modest needs. Off the shelf or built for you. Choose SSD even if you choose a cheaper processor. Keep your Monitor/Keyboard/Mouse.
I agree to try a fresh install as this would probably sort things out, or if you buy new keep the old one for internet and crap and get yourself a laptop just for home studio. Nothing beats a dedicated machine!
W10 can be made to be efficient.
If you are recording then RAM and SSD is everything, a recent i5 will be fine. As a desktop it will turbo boost when you need it to, and with good cooling it will not throttle.
Personally, in your situation I would
- Try a fresh rebuild and put w10 on and see how it is.
- Possibly upgrade to an SSD at the same time.
- See if it will support 16gb ram and if so how much it would be to upgrade it
- If not, get a new machine with SSD (Sounds like you need about 500gb), i5 and 16gb RAM
Worth seeing if anyone on here is close by who could guide you thru an upgrade for a few beers.
https://www.techspot.com/review/1499-intel-core-i3-8100-i3-8350K/
It does depend on which processor you look at. The i3 8350k looks to be a good bet. The PC Mark score they give for an i3 8100 is dependent on memory, but at best the score is only 13% better than the 7th gen i3 7100. There is a bigger difference on some of the other tests though
There will always be another generation just around the corner. If you wait until next year, Intel will finally have some processors built around 10nm technology, rather than the 14nm technology of the previous 4 generations. Why not wait for those as they should be better still?
Just buy whatever is the best bang for buck at the time you need to buy.
Just need someone to say "that one's shit...don't get that one" or "yeah that's what you need!"
Do not discount the latest version of AMD processor.
You will need 8GB memory a boot SSD (I'd recommend 240GB) and a 1TB normal hard drive.
Note the latest generation of CPUs don't officially support windows 7 especially the latest Intel 8th generation chips.
This AMD vs i5 shit confuses the hell out of me though, what is the difference? And why do I need an SSD?
I think people do exaggerate how good SSD's are. I'm typing this on a PC fitted with an SSD boot drive. Booting is quicker but it doesn't help with much else ..... decoding whether FLV, Mogg, ACC running a plugin etc is purely a processor task. SSD's do have a much shorter life and when they do go data recovery is often impossible.
Your average 7200 SATA drive is more than capable of handling 90 odd tracks of audio. In the studio we never used SSD's only standard 7200 drives
When it comes to building PC's (and this is coming from someone who made enough money to blow on a studio BY building PC's and repairing laptops) these days it's very difficult to undercut people like Spire Technology. Certainly I don't bother, their build - burn in and OS load is £30 on top of the parts at trade price so there's very little point doing it yourself, easy as it is
A modest i5 PC with 4 to 8Gb of ram is fine for audio. Everytime this subject comes up the stakes seem to go up yet again despite the fact it takes no more power to record an audio stream of 24 \ 48 to disk then it did 15 years ago. Yes VI's can use a lot of power but you can print them if needed. It doesn't curb your options as long as you can also trigger it again from a copy of the original track
This Dell I'm tying on is a first gen i5 laptop with 3Gb ram and it's fine for simultaneously recording 24 tracks of audio and editing them in reaper with a bunch of Waves plugs.
The CPUs are a similar price to the 7th gen ones, but the cheapest motherboards they are listing that are compatible are £110 though. You can buy a budget motherboard for a 7th gen chip for under £60. I'm sure there will be cheaper motherboards eventually.
Don't waste money on something you don't need.
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
SSDs are faster than conventional hard drives. It's normally less of an advantage in a desktop PC than in a laptop as desktop drives normally run at 7200 rpm where laptop ones normally run at 5400 rpm. As an SSD doesn't have to use energy to keep a disc spinning it uses less energy as well. Again that's a bigger advantage on a laptop because the battery life is better. On a desktop you will just save a few pence on your electricity bill.
While SSDs are faster, they are smaller capacity.
There are a lot of scare stories about SSDs dying, but conventional hard drives can pack up with no warning as well.
At the moment, the best option is a small SSD to install your operating system and key software on to make it run fast, and a bigger conventional drive for storage. If the SSD does die, and contrary to what some say, that's not inevitable, or even probable, then you can always reinstall the OS and software. You shouldn't lose any data. Whatever kind of drive you have, you need to back up regularly anyway. I've had a conventional hard drive can fail with no warning.
In terms of AMD vs intel.
AMD until recently was totally sub par compared to intel. But this year they released their Ryzen CPUs.
On a core by core basis they perform to about the same performance as a 6th Generation intel (any chip with a 6xxx in the name) at equal frequency.
However for the same price as an intel chip they doubled the number of cores. This has kicked intel in the butt big time, such that they had to bring their new Coffee lake (8th generation) chips forward by about a year.
Intel Chip versions
7th Generation
i3 7100 = 2 Cores 4 threads 3.9Ghz
i3 7300 = 2 Cores 4 threads 4.0Ghz
i5-7400 = 4 Cores 4 threads 3.0Ghz
i5-7600 = 4 Cores 4 threads 3.5Ghz
i7-7700 = 4 Cores 8 threads 3.6Ghz up to 4.2Ghz
AMD
Ryzen 3 (competes with i3)
R3 1200 = 4 cores 4 threads 3.1Ghz
R3 1300X = 4 cores 4 threads = 3.5Ghz
Ryzen 5 (competes with i5)
R5 1400 = 4 cores 8 threads 3.2Ghz
R5 1500X = 4 cores 8 threads 3.5Ghz
R5 1600X = 6 cores 12 threads 3.6Ghz
Ryzen 7 (Competes with i7)
R7 1700 = 8 cores 16 threads = 3.4Ghz
R7 1800 = 8 cores 16 threads 3.6Ghz
There is an 8th generation out now for intel buy you will pay a premium for that (and availability is low)
The sweet spot for you is probably an i5 or Ryzen 5 1500X but if you can stretch to a 1600X you will have a
powerhouse on your hands (best performance per dollar out there at the moment).
One thing to note however the intel Chips have a built in GPU (Graphics card) so a system that relies on this
may be a little cheaper as they don't need to stick a dedicated GPU on the motherboard.
Your budget of £300 to £500 is rather low mind if you want a pre-built system.
Using PCSPECIALIST to Build a custom PC. I've got the following for you.
Intel based system
Basic case with
Intel i3 - 7300
8GB Memory
1TB Hard drive
Windows 10 64bit
DVD drive
£478 including VAT
AMD based system
i3 - 1200
8TB Memory
1TB hard drive
Nvidia 710GPU
Windows 10 64bit
DVD drive
£499 including VAT
For performance comparison
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i3-7100-vs-AMD-Ryzen-3-1200/3891vs3931
I'd always go with more cores as if something kicks off in the background that hogs a whole CPU core you have plenty of other cores to play with.
These systems will feel like super computers compared to your older machine.