(..no longer) Strat thud from pickup selector position 2

What's Hot
SunDevilSunDevil Frets: 511
edited October 2017 in Guitar
Gents,

Liking the new Strat a lot  but still addressing some gremlins and wonder if I could seek you're expert council again?

When I select position 2, I get a noticeable thud, rather like a short restablishing connection

It's inconsistent, but tends to happen when I've been playing in positions 3-5 for a bit

The Strat is wired with the Bridge having its own tone pot and both tones have separate caps, so I assume different values too.

This Strat still has the tones after the volume, plus the treble bleed, but I was getting this when it was stock too

Dodgy contact? ..some sort of capacitance thingamy?

Baz
The answer was never 42 - it's 1/137 (..ish)
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom

Comments

  • SunDevilSunDevil Frets: 511
    edited October 2017
    Some more info on this following a more detailed investigation today

    • Moving the selector between all position is smooth and silent, with the exception of going from 3 to 2, when there's always a noticeable pop
    • If I've been in positions 3-5 for a few seconds, the pop can sometimes turn into a thud
    • I've pulled the scratch plate and examined the CRL switch - all is clean (it's a new guitar) and there's a clean scratch on the contact plate on both sides
    • No obvious wiring issues
    • I've gently pushed each of the contacts on both sides of the switch to slightly over extend them to ensure a clean contact
    • I've also given all the contact areas a good going over with contact cleaner

    ..none of this has made any difference

    • Also a bit more detail on the wiring configuration and in general
    • Position 2 is definitely a touch quieter than 1 or 3 - I'd expect that but I don't here the same level of drop for position 4 (all 3 pups have a DC of 6.5k and the bridge is a couple of DB down on the others by direct comparison)
    • 1 tone for Neck and Mid with a 0.1 cap
    • 1 tone for bridge with a 0.05 cap from the input to ground and a smaller cap between the wiper and 3rd terminal

    I spoke to Fender, they suggested I simply hand back the guitar I've spent 3 years finding and they'll 'just swap it for another one' - FFS!
    The answer was never 42 - it's 1/137 (..ish)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • BloodEagleBloodEagle Frets: 5320
    edited October 2017
    Could I politely suggest that you're being a bit OCD about it - somethings causing it I suppose but I personally wouldnt worry, its not really a fault and I bet 8/10 strats plugged into your setup would do exactly the same
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SunDevilSunDevil Frets: 511
    edited October 2017
    Suggest away -  I appreciate you can't tell how bad it is from the description 

     it's a problem and sufficiently noticeable that my other half (who has cloth ears) has called it out
    The answer was never 42 - it's 1/137 (..ish)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    edited October 2017
    Might be worth inspecting the contact parts of your switch for physical issues. 

    The flat "wiper" parts the sprung leaf metal contacts as it passes between them. It is possible that one part is butting up too firmly with the edge of another, causing the unwanted sound.

    If your switch is the modern, unsprung, "wheel and bumps" type, the motion of the wheel across the notch bumps physically displaces the contact wiper during its travel. This alone may explain the make and break noises. Try greasing the bump track.

    As BloodEagle says, the issue does plague an large number of Stratocasters. Indeed, on some famous recordings, it makes it possible to tell when the artiste has changed to a new pickup selection. 
    Be seeing you.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SunDevilSunDevil Frets: 511
    Thanks @Funkfingers  - I'm not getting this problem with any of the other Strat type guitars to the point where it's an issue as it is in this case.

    It's only an issue in one position - I just want this one to behave like the other 4 do :-)
    The answer was never 42 - it's 1/137 (..ish)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    My suggestion - get rid of the two-capacitor nonsense and wire it like a proper Strat with one cap and the tone controls on the pickup side of the volume pot. It's most likely the combination of the two caps which is causing it, possibly combined with a tiny DC leak from whatever you're plugged into.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • normula1normula1 Frets: 639
    It'll be as per @ICBM's comment. One of my Strats is wired in a similar manner with two independent "greasebucket" tone controls. It always pops the first time I switch to the bridge pickup. I find a few flicks across the pickup selections clears it.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SunDevilSunDevil Frets: 511
    Thanks both - I've come to the same conclusion about a rewire - enough elements I want to tweak now that I may as well start from scratch
    The answer was never 42 - it's 1/137 (..ish)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    I really don't understand why Fender keep messing about with this stuff. The purpose of the 'Greasebucket' system seems to be to reduce the effective value of the tone cap as the control is turned down. Why? I'd be very surprised if it makes a useful difference, even for those players who actually use the control.

    It's just complexity for the sake of it in my opinion - dressed up in the same sort of marketing guff as they've been doing since the TBX control.

    The only change that's really worth doing to Leo's original tone control scheme is to make the middle pickup control work on the bridge pickup as well, if you prefer that.

    (A treble-pass cap/resistor is also useful, but that's a slightly different issue.)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • SunDevilSunDevil Frets: 511
    Yep - I naively thought that a '1956' Strat would have a vintage style loom, but I like a project :-)
    The answer was never 42 - it's 1/137 (..ish)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Some ceramic caps can have a piezo type effect and generate a voltage when struck by vibration, if your sure it's not the switch contacts then there's little else can make that noise 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SunDevilSunDevil Frets: 511
    Thanks Danny - yep, I suspect there's a cap issue at play here

    The answer was never 42 - it's 1/137 (..ish)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SunDevilSunDevil Frets: 511
    edited October 2017
    Strat now re-wired and thread re-titled accordingly - I'm now officially thud free!

    I've gone with a super switch to give me the option to split the tone caps at a later point (and stand a better chance of being thud free if I experiment with that.)

    I also went with a '280k RS superpot' as much out of curiosity as anything, as I had it lying around.

    It has a great taper - before the change, all the action with between 10-7, but now I have very little volume drop until I hit 5, but a really nice gradual clean up across that range

    I currently have a 0.1 cap shared between the Neck + Middle & Bridge tones, which has done wonders for the Bridge (which was a separate 0.05 cap with greasbucket type circuit, but no resistor, as per the schematics I've seen.)

    I was going to put a base plate on the Bridge, but putting on a regular tone has addressed the lack of punch and I don't think it's necessary now.

    Interestingly, the bridge tone solder joint was on the verge of failing and it separated when I lifted the pots out - not great QC

    My only issue now is that the lever of the super switch seems overly 'sticky-outy' - might need to trim it a little for purely aesthetic reasons
    The answer was never 42 - it's 1/137 (..ish)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    SunDevil said:

    I currently have a 0.1 cap shared between the Neck + Middle & Bridge tones, which has done wonders for the Bridge (which was a separate 0.05 cap with greasbucket type circuit, but no resistor, as per the schematics I've seen.)
    Isn't it funny… after all this messing about by Fender, the best tone is from the plain old 0.1uF that was the standard cap back in Leo's day. You would think it would be obvious given how highly regarded the tone of those old guitars is!

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.