G2 Gigrig issue with vibe and fuzzface

lukedlblukedlb Frets: 86
having reduced my board and omitted my G2, I discovered that the G2 was having an effect on the fuzzface/univibe interaction. This was heard with both a shinei and classic amplification univibe. The fuzzface is a vintage spec circuit. Both combinations are effected. Pre and post are off. 
Any reason for this?
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Comments

  • The G2 has a buffer, right?

    Vintage fuzz faces don't like buffers. 
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  • hotpickupshotpickups Frets: 678
    Can't you turn the buffers off when using the fuzz? I turn them off on my Boss ES 5 when a preset has my fuzz in it 
    Link to my trading feedback:  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/59452/
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 406

    I think it's more subtle than that - it could be if you have the buffers on. But they can also be introduced by the pre/post gain circuits - so if you're using those, they have a buffer.

    I've ditched my G2, mainly because of size/weight (when combined with pedals), plus I love the Fractal AX8 so much, but one of the nails in the coffin for me was the input impedance of the G2.

    Most amps are (I believe) around 1Mohm, the G2 is 2.2MOhm, on most of my guitars I didn't notice this - but I have an old Tele which is a wonderful guitar yet sounded utter crap through the G2 - it just didn't like seeing that impedance.

    Plugging the guitar straight into the amp proved that.

    Could it be something like that?

    When I had a Fuzz with my G2, apart from the above I got on fine as long as the Fuzz was at the front of the chain (I had it in loop 1), everything (including wah which was also in a loop) came after.

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  • lukedlblukedlb Frets: 86
    The buffer/gain issue isn't as clear as it should be, even in correspondence with the Gigrig team. I assumed that both were selectable (the manual uses the two terms almost interchangeably) when they are clearly separate issues. I believed that when the pre and post gain is selected, the signal is buffered; without gain there should be no buffering. However, this can't be true as my ff/vibe experience suggests. There is something happening to the signal. This is not the same pure tone that went into the G2. I loved my G2 and the fuzzface sounded great in the G2 as did the Vibe. Yet the incompatibility of the ff/vibe in the G2 does suggest that the G2 magic (selectable and moveable loops) has some sacrifice. 
    And if I'm ruthlessly honest, there was a difference between plugging the guitar directly into the amp or through the G2. Insignificant perhaps but there nonetheless. 
    I wonder if I will face this issue with a Gigrig quartermaster or a simple loop selector from bright onion. 
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  • lukedlblukedlb Frets: 86
    The G2 has a buffer, right?

    Vintage fuzz faces don't like buffers. 
    The fuzzface alone sounds fine; it was the vibe/ff interaction that was the price. Vibe was in loop 3 and fuzz loop 4. I used the moveable loop to test the reverse position. Perhaps I should have put the fuzz in loop 1 and vibe in loop 2 and tested the reverse. Although why would the loop number effect the g2's ability to incorporate any single loop is beyond my understanding of the g2. It might turn out that the physical placement is more important than the moveable selection. 
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 406

    That's basically the conclusion I came to, to be brutally honest - I initially loved the G2, it's cool and all - and it sounded better than the Quartermaster I had before (which I had some issues with around earthing for example).

    But the Midi was limiting, and it annoyed me that I was looking at the Osmosis as an add-on.

    And it does change the sound, as I said - for many guitars this was slim to a slight improvement, but for one or two - it was not.

    My take on the G2 is that it's a really good product, like all products it has it's limitations - and it's certainly very well marketed if you get what I mean.

    As a workaround, I considered putting more pedals before/after the G2, I think a few people do that - maybe that will work for you, ultimately I decided that was a step too far for me

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  • lukedlblukedlb Frets: 86
    peteri said:

    That's basically the conclusion I came to, to be brutally honest - I initially loved the G2, it's cool and all - and it sounded better than the Quartermaster I had before (which I had some issues with around earthing for example).

    But the Midi was limiting, and it annoyed me that I was looking at the Osmosis as an add-on.

    And it does change the sound, as I said - for many guitars this was slim to a slight improvement, but for one or two - it was not.

    My take on the G2 is that it's a really good product, like all products it has it's limitations - and it's certainly very well marketed if you get what I mean.

    As a workaround, I considered putting more pedals before/after the G2, I think a few people do that - maybe that will work for you, ultimately I decided that was a step too far for me

    Was the quartermaster the flip flop version? I'm really only looking fo a way to exclude a number of pedals from my clean tone. If I went purely mechanical without any active led, would it help eliminate potential ground/interference/tone loss issues?
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 406

    I've had two quartermasters - neither the flip flop version, but still current models.

    They're great little units, and I wouldn't discourage anyone from them. But a few things to remember - firstly your signal is passing through the relays, whether that bothers you or not is up to you but it's a thing.

    I had ground loop problems with how I really wanted to use them, I wanted to have the amp pre-amp in a loop - so basically a 4CM set-up, and had really bad ground loop issues.

    I have to say, that was a time I was really disappointed with the gigrig support, which was excellent later on with the G2 - basically they tried to sell me a humdinger with no promise it would work - and kind of admitted that because of the shared ground between all loops this could happen, whilst at the same time - never really admitting it was.

    That disappointed me, basically the quartermaster is a well wired up series of relays - nothing wrong with that, but like much of the gigrig stuff, there's always another little box to buy to give you just what you want.

    If you get the Q8, your signal will pass through 8 relays, and whatever pedals are on will be sharing a common earth rail - which is ok, most of the time but maybe not

    I don't want to come across as down on Gigrig, I like Dan when I've spoken to him, and they're good products. But they don't cure cancer, and they sometimes introduce just as many issues as they solve (just like any other tool).

    I would certainly consider a quartermaster or G2 based solution in the future, but not without a lot more planning

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  • lukedlblukedlb Frets: 86
    @peteri you mentioned the shared ground rail. Would a germanium fuzz centre positive face problems here? I power it via the Gigrig 9v battery. 
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 406

    Well according to the website this provides isolated power, so that's good.

    But the common rail I was referring to is the signal rather than the power - so I don't suggest it will cause issues, but it was something that did cause me a problem in a couple of scenarios, where you have something introducing noise or a loop into the signal path - that goes across the whole unit

    Hope that makes sense

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  • lukedlblukedlb Frets: 86
    peteri said:

    Well according to the website this provides isolated power, so that's good.

    But the common rail I was referring to is the signal rather than the power - so I don't suggest it will cause issues, but it was something that did cause me a problem in a couple of scenarios, where you have something introducing noise or a loop into the signal path - that goes across the whole unit

    Hope that makes sense

    My worry is extra noise seeing how sensitive the fuzz face is. 
    Would a simple true bypass looper from bright onion help the same? No need for led or power even. I just want to get 4 loops out of the signal path:
    1) fuzz, octavia and dirt
    2) univibe 
    3) tuner
    4) compressor, trem/boost, reverb, Leslie 

    wah before their loops, pre amp after them. 
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