re ebay etc: should sellers tell buyers if they have replaced rubber backs with velcro?

Chalky

JDE said:

Chalky said:

If you are more picky, i.e. you want a pristine product for a secondhand price, then ascertaining the condition is just as much your responsibility as the sellers.  Thinking that what the seller means by "great condition" is the same as what that means in your head, is silly and lazy.

I get your point, but then you have the flip side of the coin - used but excellent condition pedals being described as “new.” If someone sells me something they’re describing as “new” I want it to be new. I don’t care if you’ve only used it for five minutes, used is used. 
I’m not sure “great condition” would indicate to anyone that it’s rubber feet are missing and Velcro has been added, unless it says “great condition, with Velcro” which is what I say when I sell stuff. I mean I know we are talking about a guitar Pedal here and not a car or something, but leaving off info like whether it’s been velcro’d is very definitely the sellers responsibility not the buyers.

The point is - if knowing whether it has Velcro or missing feet is important to you, then ASK. Take responsibility. Don't assume that your priorities and prejudices are the same as the seller's. You have equal responsibility to the seller for making a good transaction.  Stop trying to make it one-sided.

x-valves4ever

Velcro...it's a rip off...

prowla

If I've bought a pedal and it had velcro, then I tend to think "Great - it's already got the velcro on it!".

If I were listing, I would say so (memo to self...).

JDE

Chalky said:

The point is - if knowing whether it has Velcro or missing feet is important to you, then ASK. Take responsibility. Don't assume that your priorities and prejudices are the same as the seller's. You have equal responsibility to the seller for making a good transaction.  Stop trying to make it one-sided.

Respectfully disagree. If I stuck a sticker on the back of a guitar I was selling but didn’t photograph it or mention it, that would be out of order. 
Sticking velcro on a Pedal is not a prerequisite. You can assume if you buy a second hand item it has been used (a pedal stepped on, a car driven etc), but sticking something on it is not part of “regular usage.” It might be to a load of us, but if the pedal doesn’t come like that, it doesn’t come like that. It’s doing me a favour, fair enough, but it should be disclosed.
I believe it is *always* the seller’s responsiblity to disclose anything they’ve done to an item outside of normal use and it’s really only lazy bastards that don’t. 

ecc83

I used to get very pissed off when I got pedals back under warranty claim with the base rubber totally covered with Velcro as it meant the serial number was obscured and destroyed (on a foil sticky).

Being then with a very young company I could not get hard nosed and refuse the claim but think we would have had a case! The MOST annoying part was that there was plenty of base acreage WITHOUT covering the ser#!

While I am here? If you get any of the HT series pedals do check that all four base screws are present and tight*. Just one screw takes the internal zero volts point to the case and if missing or loose can result in twittering and hums.

*If anyone has occasion to remove said base buy a good quality #1 pozi driver and steady the pedal before you attack it! Best if you have a mate (I had a BIG Mother vice!) If FAIR effort does not shift a screw, PM me!

Dave.

impmann

I always mention is there is Velcro on the base when selling. However I don’t get the comment about it not being in as new condition - the pedal can be mint otherwise (ie no paint chips, perfect working order etc). And some people actually want pre-Velcro’d pedals so it’s convenient to just pop them straight onto their boards.

TBH, some people want immaculate unused condition and yet want to pay the same price as a used toilet roll for a pedal. If Velcro annoys you that much, buy new. If you’re buying s/h to save a few quid then you have to accept that there will be evidence of its previous use - and most guitar fx pedals get used on boards, with Velcro being the most popular method of attachment. I do agree that any useage marks etc should be disclosed - perhaps the best idea is to assume the worst, and pay a price that reflects that. Or buy new.

impmann

Or... before clicking the button ask the question of the seller “is there Velcro on the base and are the original rubber feet included/fitted?”

John_A

impmann said:

Or... before clicking the button ask the question of the seller “is there Velcro on the base and are the original rubber feet included/fitted?”

When I get questions like that or ' are the frets in perfect condition, does it have a low action with no fret buzz anywhere on the neck' type questions,  I really start to hope they don't buy it.  I agree, if you are picky to the point of being silly then you should buy new

ICBM

It's not whether or not it has velcro that's the problem, it's if they've ripped off the original bottom mat to fit it. To me that is substantial damage that should be disclosed, the same as if (for example) the battery clip has been removed, and when pulled up on it the seller says "who cares - everyone uses a power supply".

John_A

ICBM said:

It's not whether or not it has velcro that's the problem, it's if they've ripped off the original bottom mat to fit it. To me that is substantial damage that should be disclosed, the same as if (for example) the battery clip has been removed, and when pulled up on it the seller says "who cares - everyone uses a power supply".

Agree, that should be mentioned

Dan_Halen

For velcro, whether or not it should be included is kind of irrelevant - it's the buyer who creates the ad. Rightly or wrongly, there's no way to force them to be more comprehensive. If it's a deal breaker then you'll just need to ask them if it's not clear. Annoying I know but what else can you do?

Personally, I try and put everything in the ad including photos from all angles to stop the questions coming in - and to cover myself in case of dispute or people just trying it on.

Battery door missing though is another kettle of fish. It's not really a case of 'mentioning' but actually not disclosing part of the pedal is missing. I'd rather return it just in case there's anything else they've failed to mention.

tampaxboo

returning to this one after watching it with interest over the weekend.

i've already given my opinion in the op, which is that discreet 'additions' (velcro) are not a huge deal, but in the case of 'missing' parts i think transparency is essential. saying 'good condition' suggests 'intact/no missing parts' as a bare minimum. while you can get subjective about superficial things, wear, etc, that 'intact/no missing parts' to me is the floor.
therefore if something is missing the onus is on the seller to be transparent about it in the description (that's what it's there for), not for me to go out of my way to cross-examine them on what is and isn't missing. 'good condition' should mean 'complete'.

as for my situation, while annoyed about it on arrival (being the second in a row, it riled me some), i've subsequently decided to order some same size rubber replacement feet (china cheap), and the battery compartment i will find something for.
the battery cover also holds the battery, so it's absence is an inconvenience (an option as a power back up). but as the pedal wasn't expensive (£25, bought to mod), i feel the hassle of opening an ebay case and potentially having to wrap and return it (then having to hunt for the same pedal all over) is potentially the greater inconvenience than finding a workaround.

in general i think it's a 'do unto others' thing. but it has been interesting to read the opinions of those who seem ready to blame themselves for not asking, rather than the seller for not saying, as they should.
that sounds a little bit like 'it's my fault for not being mistrusting and cynical enough'. but the seller is supposed to describe the item honestly in the description. contract obligation.

UnclePsychosis

There are literally no good reasons for an eBay listing not to have photos of all six sides.

That's what I do. It takes about 30s more effort. It also helps protect you (a bit) from not as described claims - hard to complain about scratches or velcro if they're in the photo. 

Johnnyseven

If you bought a record listed as good condition on ebay or Discogs and expected it to be issue free i'm afraid you'd be very unhappy.

Different descriptions mean different things to different people and in different subject areas have quite different meanings. If something is that important to you just ask the question to avoid dissapointment. Some people just don't realise that something minor to them might be a deal breaker to someone else.

Also if the seller bought it used without the part in question they may not be aware that it is missing. Sometimes people don't know what they don't know.

viz

Dan_Halen said:

For velcro, whether or not it should be included is kind of irrelevant - it's the buyer who creates the ad. 

It's more often the seller who creates the advert, so if the pedal has velcro stuck on it, they should say so, I think. It's just about the only thing they can do to alter the pedal, other than ripping components off it, so why not disclose it? It's definitely a returnable offence / bad feedback opportunity, so just to avoid that most sellers would think it sensible not to mention it. 

gearaddict

I once got chided by a buyer because I hadn't mentioned that I had added velcro to a Suhr Riot. I'd just forgotten. Now I always mention it and say I'm happy to remove it if they want me too. But that heavy duty velcro is quite expensive so I think people might quite like it to be left on, rather than have to use their own.

Chalky

gearaddict said:

I once got chided by a buyer because I hadn't mentioned that I had added velcro to a Suhr Riot. I'd just forgotten. Now I always mention it and say I'm happy to remove it if they want me too. But that heavy duty velcro is quite expensive so I think people might quite like it to be left on, rather than have to use their own.

Someone asked me if I had the receipt for my pedal so that they would get the warranty if it had a problem.  Yes, for a secondhand pedal. I politely suggested they buy a new pedal if they want a warranty.

You don't have to make this shit up. There really are clowns on here who want a mint pedal with warranty for a secondhand price.

Once again, as ever, it proves the golden rule of selling guitar gear - those who ask questions don't buy.