Attenuator for a jcm800 - power brake ? Hot plate ??

riffpowers

I reckon I'm gonna start looking for a 2nd hand attenuator for my jcm800. 

Its been a long time since I looked at getting one , is the powerbrake or hotplate still the way to go or are there others to look out for ??
not looking to go to home levels , just want to be able to turn it past 3 at gigs without having to leave it in the car park outside .

ICBM

Powerbrake yes, Hotplate definitely no.

For a 2203, I don't think there is a better one than the Powerbrake, although I haven't tried some of the new options.

TimmyO

On ICBM's (repeated) recommendations I got a Powerbrake to use with mine and it was good.

I also used a Two Notes Torpedo Reload and that was even better - but not by that much and they are *expensive* 

I had to be a bit patient waiting for a Powerbrake to come up for sale but they are out there

riffpowers

Thanks, powerbrake it is!!!

shaunm

I used a power break, worked well

riffpowers

Any idea how much I should expect to pay for one??

zepp76

It's not cheap by any means but give the Rivera Rock Crusher a serious look, I use one with my JTM45 and it does a cracking job. There's no tone suck even when you switch to studio mode (to my ears anyway). It's switchable between 8 and 16 Ohms which is handy, it really is a great bit of kit. I'm sure there are other users on the forum who may be able to chip in on any info I may have left out.

John_A

riffpowers said:

Any idea how much I should expect to pay for one??

£120-£150 for a used powerbrake - Brilliant with Marshall's (as you would expect)  I would say that a JCM800 doesn't really need one unless you are planning using it at home.  The master volume is pretty good, and they only need to be on 2-3 to start sounding great.  'cranking it'  isn't always the best option

riffpowers

John_A said:

riffpowers said:

Any idea how much I should expect to pay for one??

£120-£150 for a used powerbrake - Brilliant with Marshall's (as you would expect)  I would say that a JCM800 doesn't really need one unless you are planning using it at home.  The master volume is pretty good, and they only need to be on 2-3 to start sounding great.  'cranking it'  isn't always the best option

Hi John, Thanks for the info. I agree, sadly about 2 is as much as I can hope to get out of mine with a decent 4x12 . Its immense!!

DanR

What about the new two notes captor.

I've just ordered one as a 20db reduction should be enough plus it has a built in cab emulation.

I will be using mine with a Friedman Butterslax.

riffpowers

DanR said:

What about the new two notes captor.

I've just ordered one as a 20db reduction should be enough plus it has a built in cab emulation.

I will be using mine with a Friedman Butterslax.

I'm gonna guess that they're expensive 

riffpowers

ICBM said:

Powerbrake yes, Hotplate definitely no.

For a 2203, I don't think there is a better one than the Powerbrake, although I haven't tried some of the new options.

Out of interest, what's so bad about the hot plate  over the power brake ?? I thought they were a well regarded bit of kit !

ICBM

riffpowers said:

Out of interest, what's so bad about the hot plate  over the power brake ?? I thought they were a well regarded bit of kit !

The Hotplate has an odd impedance curve which differs very much from a real speaker - much lower, especially at high frequencies when the 'bright' switch is on. As a result it stresses the output valves heavily and can cause failures, as well as sounding not brilliant.

There is a work-around - if you set the amp to half the impedance of the Hotplate - but it's still not ideal. The Powerbrake is much better because its impedance curve rises sharply with frequency - actually slightly more than a real speaker - but this is fine for Marshalls.

The Hotplate is excellent with amps like BF/SF Fenders and Mesas, which prefer a low mismatch rather than a high one. It's not a bad bit of kit, just the wrong one for this amp.

Sassafras

Hurry up, it ends in a couple of hours:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marshall-PB100-Power-Brake-Guitar-Amp-Attenuator-in-Black/253216471770?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

riffpowers

ICBM said:

riffpowers said:

Out of interest, what's so bad about the hot plate  over the power brake ?? I thought they were a well regarded bit of kit !

The Hotplate has an odd impedance curve which differs very much from a real speaker - much lower, especially at high frequencies when the 'bright' switch is on. As a result it stresses the output valves heavily and can cause failures, as well as sounding not brilliant.

There is a work-around - if you set the amp to half the impedance of the Hotplate - but it's still not ideal. The Powerbrake is much better because its impedance curve rises sharply with frequency - actually slightly more than a real speaker - but this is fine for Marshalls.

The Hotplate is excellent with amps like BF/SF Fenders and Mesas, which prefer a low mismatch rather than a high one. It's not a bad bit of kit, just the wrong one for this amp.

Thanks a lot . I learnt something there !!

DanR

riffpowers said:

DanR said:

What about the new two notes captor.

I've just ordered one as a 20db reduction should be enough plus it has a built in cab emulation.

I will be using mine with a Friedman Butterslax.

I'm gonna guess that they're expensive 

I suppose it depends on your idea of expensive.

£199 From gear 4 music with free delivery.

They had 2 16ohm versions in stock when I bought mine.

hywelg

I've had (or tried) a Hotplate, DrZ Airbrake and Powerbrake.  Hotplate is great with Fenders crap with Marshalls and Vox style EL84's . DrZ worked OK  with Fenders and we'll with EL84's but not Marshalls.  Powerbrake was poor with Fenders but the best with Marshall as you'd expect. 

hywelg

Oh, none of them work well below about 8dB of attenuation. Whisper quiet for bedroom use is pointless. Powerscaling works better for that, but even then that's not brilliant below about half power. A combination of attenuator, powerscaling and low efficiency speakers all used conservatively is the best option,  but for really quiet, modelling is probably the better bet.

ICBM

hywelg said:

I've had (or tried) a Hotplate, DrZ Airbrake and Powerbrake.  Hotplate is great with Fenders crap with Marshalls and Vox style EL84's . DrZ worked OK  with Fenders and we'll with EL84's but not Marshalls.  Powerbrake was poor with Fenders but the best with Marshall as you'd expect. 

That's exactly what I found too.

hywelg said:

Oh, none of them work well below about 8dB of attenuation. Whisper quiet for bedroom use is pointless. Powerscaling works better for that, but even then that's not brilliant below about half power. A combination of attenuator, powerscaling and low efficiency speakers all used conservatively is the best option,  but for really quiet, modelling is probably the better bet.

Surprisingly, I found you can get good sounds out of them even at very low settings provided you use them in a non-intuitive way - or at least the opposite of what you would think, and the attenuator makers tell you, of turning the amp up to get power-stage distortion.

I found it worked far better to first set the attenuator to roughly the level you were likely to want, then dial the amp in for that level with the MV down low as well. Like that, I could get a Powerbrake to sound fairly decent with a 2203 on the lowest click (-30dB), with the gain up fairly high and the MV on about 1.5. EQ rather different from normal - bass full, middle nearly off, treble low, presence high if I remember right - and a big cabinet still sounded better than a smaller less efficient one. It's a lot of faff to get a tolerable tone at TV volume though.

I don't like power scaling, I've never heard it sound as good as a decent master volume. I would maybe use it on an amp that doesn't have one, if there was no other option - but I still prefer the right attenuator.

Wazmeister

Fryette Power Station.

Daft expensive but one of the best bits of kit Ive ever purchased. Well worth the corn, and the F X loop is incredible.

riffpowers

hywelg said:

Oh, none of them work well below about 8dB of attenuation. Whisper quiet for bedroom use is pointless. Powerscaling works better for that, but even then that's not brilliant below about half power. A combination of attenuator, powerscaling and low efficiency speakers all used conservatively is the best option,  but for really quiet, modelling is probably the better bet.

I wasn't thinking of using it for home use, I just wanted to be able to turn the amp up a little more in a live context as I find that I prefer the feel and response of the amp once you get over 3 on the master.

ICBM said:

hywelg said:

I've had (or tried) a Hotplate, DrZ Airbrake and Powerbrake.  Hotplate is great with Fenders crap with Marshalls and Vox style EL84's . DrZ worked OK  with Fenders and we'll with EL84's but not Marshalls.  Powerbrake was poor with Fenders but the best with Marshall as you'd expect. 

That's exactly what I found too.

hywelg said:

Oh, none of them work well below about 8dB of attenuation. Whisper quiet for bedroom use is pointless. Powerscaling works better for that, but even then that's not brilliant below about half power. A combination of attenuator, powerscaling and low efficiency speakers all used conservatively is the best option,  but for really quiet, modelling is probably the better bet.

Surprisingly, I found you can get good sounds out of them even at very low settings provided you use them in a non-intuitive way - or at least the opposite of what you would think, and the attenuator makers tell you, of turning the amp up to get power-stage distortion.

I found it worked far better to first set the attenuator to roughly the level you were likely to want, then dial the amp in for that level with the MV down low as well. Like that, I could get a Powerbrake to sound fairly decent with a 2203 on the lowest click (-30dB), with the gain up fairly high and the MV on about 1.5. EQ rather different from normal - bass full, middle nearly off, treble low, presence high if I remember right - and a big cabinet still sounded better than a smaller less efficient one. It's a lot of faff to get a tolerable tone at TV volume though.

I don't like power scaling, I've never heard it sound as good as a decent master volume. I would maybe use it on an amp that doesn't have one, if there was no other option - but I still prefer the right attenuator.

 Sounds like a win win to me, in this case I could flog my jcm1 combo and use my jcm800 all the time !!!