Fender super champ Bargain?

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lovestrat74lovestrat74 Frets: 66
Not sure if this is a good deal or not but there is a fender champ going for 40 quid but it needs a transformer. No idea what that would cost but I am sure you of you guys might find this interesting..
https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/fender-super-champ-xd-for-sale/1273617210

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26803
    The speaker and the valves are worth that much, assuming they're OK.

    Not sure how much a replacement PT would be - probably not too much to make the repair uneconomical. Fitting it should be easy, modern Fender amps have push-connectors for all the wiring and it's just four bolts to the chassis.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • ICBM said:
    The speaker and the valves are worth that much, assuming they're OK.

    Not sure how much a replacement PT would be - probably not too much to make the repair uneconomical. Fitting it should be easy, modern Fender amps have push-connectors for all the wiring and it's just four bolts to the chassis.
    If all it needs is one of these then you have an super champ at half price. Not uneconomical one thinks...  ;)

    https://www.thomann.de/gb/tube_amp_doctor_vorschalttrafo_230_115v100va.htm?glp=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA0IXQBRA2EiwAMODilzCCXUYLgm0_2dg6abOw6ZNVsLMQ630_VCNt1KXZdDv0y_CAQMTnEhoCZ40QAvD_BwE

    Just thought it might be useful to guys on here that dabble in this type of stuff..


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  • randellarandella Frets: 1163
    edited November 7
    I think the advert probably means it needs one of the two internal transformers replacing, in this case the power transformer which changes the 240VAC mains into 6.3V for the valve heaters and a much higher (several hundred volts) primary.

    It's not the most detailed wording in the ad to be fair though
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  • DJH83004DJH83004 Frets: 130
    The only thing I would be wary of, is it looks like a stock library photo, rather than one of the actual amp, so could be a right dog and for that money suspect it is  :s
     
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1163
    DJH83004 said:
    The only thing I would be wary of, is it looks like a stock library photo, rather than one of the actual amp, so could be a right dog and for that money suspect it is  :s
     
    I'm wondering how the power transformer's popped in the first place.  Would a circuit that small fry the tranny without a load in so short a time you didn't realise your mistake first?  Or would that circuit pop it straight away?

    Unless they didn't realise the mistake I suppose.  Or shorted it.  Or connected it to the toaster by mistake.

    Bit more info would be nice, purely because I'm a nosy sod :)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26803
    edited November 7
    randella said:
    DJH83004 said:
    The only thing I would be wary of, is it looks like a stock library photo, rather than one of the actual amp, so could be a right dog and for that money suspect it is  s 
    I'm wondering how the power transformer's popped in the first place.  Would a circuit that small fry the tranny without a load in so short a time you didn't realise your mistake first?  Or would that circuit pop it straight away?

    Unless they didn't realise the mistake I suppose.  Or shorted it.  Or connected it to the toaster by mistake.

    Bit more info would be nice, purely because I'm a nosy sod
    One possibility is a badly shorted power valve, and an owner who keeps replacing the fuse when it blows - or uses one of much too large a value to 'stop it blowing' - that can stress the transformer enough to kill it, even if the mains fuse in the plug eventually blows. Sometimes transformers just fail for no very obvious reason too.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 709

    " Sometimes transformers just fail for no very obvious reason too. "

    But, IMHO IC there always IS a reason and for guitar amplifiers I would say it is because some transformers are crap!

    I may have mentioned )?!) that I come from a domestic R&TV servicing background, I remember old style radios using the 'Red E' series valves. ECH83, EF33, ...sometimes EL32 but mostly the good old 6V6. valve rectifiers. The main caps would short but I de not ever remember a mains traff failing.  These things ran 12hrs a day at serious wick in garages for 30 years!

    When portable TVs came in they had LV traffs and again, zero failures similarly VCRs. Even fairly grotty consumer audio did not pop traffs, transistors yes, not transformers.

    In fact we had to wait until L Sugar's Amstrad company made a right pig's ear of the design of a satellite receiver. Despite a century of technical knowledge they could not make a continuously rated LV transformer handling about 12 watts! 

    Dave.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26803
    ecc83 said:

    But, IMHO IC there always IS a reason and for guitar amplifiers I would say it is because some transformers are crap!

    Agreed :). There obviously always *is* a reason, it's just that sometimes there does not seem to be any *external* cause.

    It's interesting to compare brands too - for example, failed transformers are fairly common in Marshalls but almost unheard of in Fenders or Mesas unless they've been abused. I can only assume either a spec problem or poor manufacture from the companies Marshall use.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • Okay, so I think the bottom line is; it is a gamble, could be good value if there is nothing else wrong or nothing else that is leading to the issue.  Otherwise avoid!!, Well just avoid then I guess.  ;)
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  • DJH83004DJH83004 Frets: 130
    Okay, so I think the bottom line is; it is a gamble, could be good value if there is nothing else wrong or nothing else that is leading to the issue.  Otherwise avoid!!, Well just avoid then I guess.  ;)
    To be honest at that price it is not that much of a gamble at all, if it was close by to me I would buy it just for the bits to be honest, and if you fancy a little project to have a tinker with - give it a go. You will get plenty of help on the forum from all of us, as always.
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  • DJH83004 said:
    To be honest at that price it is not that much of a gamble at all, if it was close by to me I would buy it just for the bits to be honest, and if you fancy a little project to have a tinker with - give it a go. You will get plenty of help on the forum from all of us, as always.
    Wise words and i am giving it some thought sitting here with a bellyful of spag bol!

    I have a Tele still in bits and probably slightly more important an extension that is within touching distance of completion but I might just pull the trigger.  Thanks for the support!
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  • MattFGBIMattFGBI Frets: 1425
    I can't remember the last time someone asked me for a Super Champ XD transformer. I'd be interested to know what happened when it stopped working. 
    This is not an official response. 

    ukqueries@fender.com 


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26803
    MattFGBI said:
    I can't remember the last time someone asked me for a Super Champ XD transformer. I'd be interested to know what happened when it stopped working. 
    There's also a possibility that it's not the transformer at all. I've had quite a number of repairs where the owner has said "I think it needs a new transformer", apparently for no other reason than that it's the only component they know the name of… and the actual fault has been something totally different and often trivial.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 709
    ICBM said:
    MattFGBI said:
    I can't remember the last time someone asked me for a Super Champ XD transformer. I'd be interested to know what happened when it stopped working. 
    There's also a possibility that it's not the transformer at all. I've had quite a number of repairs where the owner has said "I think it needs a new transformer", apparently for no other reason than that it's the only component they know the name of… and the actual fault has been something totally different and often trivial.


    Ah! The "Picture Valve" syndrome. Customers were telling me that even when CTVs went all sstate!

    Anyhoos, looked up some Fender PTs. TAD want over a ton, seen some at £70 or so but did not investigate postage.

    I have various PTs kicking about here but none for Fenders. I doubt it would be legal to transplant the 'wrong' traff and offer for sale? Even if the replacement was 100% over rated?

    Dave.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26803
    ecc83 said:

    I have various PTs kicking about here but none for Fenders. I doubt it would be legal to transplant the 'wrong' traff and offer for sale? Even if the replacement was 100% over rated?

    I think it's legal as long as the electrical spec is compatible and it's mounted correctly - but that's one of the problems too, it's not always possible to find a different one which fits both electrically and physically - and I really hate bodging a chassis to make something 'fit' unless there's really no alternative.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • DJH83004DJH83004 Frets: 130
    'The picture valve' takes me back to my dad's days Dave, when he was tinkering with tellys and not having a clue what he was doing, just swapping valves at random, but managed to get them to work, which is what got me started in this game !! 
    Lets not get too hung up about swapping out a transformer for a non-Fender part, it's a project at the end of the day, and providing the heater and HT supply are where they should be and the mains is connected correctly, earthed and via a fuse / switch, all should be good.   
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1163
    ICBM said:
    MattFGBI said:
    I can't remember the last time someone asked me for a Super Champ XD transformer. I'd be interested to know what happened when it stopped working. 
    There's also a possibility that it's not the transformer at all. I've had quite a number of repairs where the owner has said "I think it needs a new transformer", apparently for no other reason than that it's the only component they know the name of… and the actual fault has been something totally different and often trivial.
    This is why I was curious, the owner has apparently diagnosed it, but it could be the amp equivalent of that old favourite from the Autotrader - 'aircon just needs a re-gas'.

    Anyway.  If it was near me I'd have a punt for £40, for the price of two rounds of drinks you've got the basis of a new project (like I need any more of those!)
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 709
    DJH83004 said:
    'The picture valve' takes me back to my dad's days Dave, when he was tinkering with tellys and not having a clue what he was doing, just swapping valves at random, but managed to get them to work, which is what got me started in this game !! 
    Lets not get too hung up about swapping out a transformer for a non-Fender part, it's a project at the end of the day, and providing the heater and HT supply are where they should be and the mains is connected correctly, earthed and via a fuse / switch, all should be good.   


    Not "hung up" exactly DJH just covering all the legalistic bases! So long as it remains 'a project' do WTF you like!

    Dave.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26803
    Big difference between if you're going to use it for a project yourself and if you're intending to sell it on commercially. If you're going to sell it privately (as a non-professional) then it's something of a grey area I think. I have scrapped several 'project' amps I've acquired where I wasn't confident about regulations compliance for re-sale, but I can't exactly plead ignorance…
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • DJH83004DJH83004 Frets: 130
    Fair points guys, was thinking it was a nice little project for someone as a keeper, we have all done them in the past and providing the mains is safely done e.g. switched and fused and the power TX is correctly rated, shouldn't be an issue (if that is actually the problem, which as IC says it may well not be). No need to get shirty Dave, we are all on the same side  :s       
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  • mbembe Frets: 188
    What about 'hot-rodded' amps? Can they ever comply with regulations?
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26803
    mbe said:
    What about 'hot-rodded' amps? Can they ever comply with regulations?
    Yes. Most will have had no modifications to the mains side, and those that do are usually only fitted with an approved aftermarket mains transformer. They should be tested and PAT labelled though.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 4387
    edited November 8
    TBH - -the SCXD is an excellent little amp with a big voice when output through larger speakers.

    You will find one at a good price and it will be a rewarding amp. Unless you know the full extent of the issue with this donor, then the chance to make any significant savings is slim.
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
    __________________________________
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