Marshall Valvestate 8008 Power amp MONO question

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AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 96
edited November 8 in Amps
Hi all,

I picked up a Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp and a Mesa Boogie Formula Preamp second hand recently. Really liking the sound of them together.  But it's not that loud in mono.

Running the preamp and poweramp in mono through a Zilla 1x12 Fatbaby with one 16ohm Celestion speaker.  I'm just using a single output from the Marshall power amp.   It's fine for loud home use but maybe not enough headroom for playing with a drummer.

 Do you think it's because I'm running it in mono?  @Clarky would love to hear your opinion if poss. Think you've got the same power amp? 

Cheers,
Andy

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26818
    It's both because you're only using one channel and because you're running it at 16 ohms. The 80W is into 4 ohms - from memory it gives something like 55W into 8 ohms and only 30W into 16.

    30W solid-state (bearing in mind you probably won't want it to clip) is really not a lot for playing against a drummer, through a single speaker. You probably need either a 4-ohm cab or a 2x12" to get it loud enough, since unfortunately it doesn't have a 'bridge' mode.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 96
    edited November 8
    Ah that explains a lot.  That's for the advice buddy, appreciate it.

    Do you think a single speaker at 4 ohms would be ok?  With the 2x12 do I need one with 2 inputs (1 for each speaker)?

    thanks!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26818
    AndyJP said:

    Do you think a single speaker at 4 ohms would be ok?  With the 2x12 do I need one with 2 inputs (1 for each speaker)?
    A single speaker at 4 ohms may be enough - obviously it will need to be at least an 80W speaker and preferably higher. Good 4-ohm 'guitar' speakers aren't very common, most are designed for bass or PA and may be a bit dull-sounding for guitar.

    What speaker does the cab have now? Not all Celestions are the highest efficiency available, and it's possible that a single high-efficiency 8-ohm speaker could make enough difference if the one you have isn't.

    With a 2x12" you have two options - either running from one side of the amp, or with two inputs from both sides. If possible I would avoid a 4-ohm cab in mono, since that's slightly more stressful for the amp than 8 or 16 ohms - it's better to get the same (or actually slightly more) power by using both sides at 8 ohms, if you can.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 589
    edited November 8
    I used to have an 8008 which I used as a part of a rack system with a JMP1 pre-amp and a G major processor.

    I ran the two outputs as stereo into separate 8 ohm V30 speakers (one per channel). That was easily loud enough in a large 10 piece band with a loud drummer. I'm not sure I would have been able to tolerate much drop in volume for that band. I briefly tried a Marshall 20/20 valve power amp instead, but that didn't stay clean enough at volume for me.

    On occasions when I used the 8008 with one cab (e.g. rehearsals), I always put a load resistor on the unused output (and set it to minimum volume) because I wasn't sure whether it was OK to leave one channel unloaded.
    It's not a competition
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 96
    ICBM said:
    AndyJP said:

    Do you think a single speaker at 4 ohms would be ok?  With the 2x12 do I need one with 2 inputs (1 for each speaker)?
    A single speaker at 4 ohms may be enough - obviously it will need to be at least an 80W speaker and preferably higher. Good 4-ohm 'guitar' speakers aren't very common, most are designed for bass or PA and may be a bit dull-sounding for guitar.

    What speaker does the cab have now? Not all Celestions are the highest efficiency available, and it's possible that a single high-efficiency 8-ohm speaker could make enough difference if the one you have isn't.

    With a 2x12" you have two options - either running from one side of the amp, or with two inputs from both sides. If possible I would avoid a 4-ohm cab in mono, since that's slightly more stressful for the amp than 8 or 16 ohms - it's better to get the same (or actually slightly more) power by using both sides at 8 ohms, if you can.
    It's a Celestion g12-65 heritage speaker. Love that speaker!
    I wonder if I could get an EVM-12L in 4 ohms.  mmmm. Always fancied one of them.
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 96
    @stratman3142 cheers for the input buddy.  Really helpful.

    But... What's a load resistor when it's at home?
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26818
    One occasions when I used the 8008 with one cab (e.g. rehearsals), I always put a load resistor on the unused output (and set it to minimum volume) because I wasn't sure whether it was OK to leave one channel unloaded.
    Yes, it is - especially with the volume turned right down - but that's not a foolish thing to do if you don't know.

    Also, for anyone who is interested in a Valvestate power amp, the 8008 is the one to get - they're solid and reliable. Avoid the 8004 - which is sometimes confused with the 80W model because it's 40W per channel, or 80 in total - easily identified by having no volume controls on the front. These are unreliable and a bit weak-sounding.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • veldt666veldt666 Frets: 15
    I have a surplus, Marshall 200w a side, Solid state power amp available £100.
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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 589
    edited November 8
    AndyJP said:
    @stratman3142 cheers for the input buddy.  Really helpful.

    But... What's a load resistor when it's at home?

    I used what I believe is called a chassis mount resistor which I screwed to a metal plate, for added heat dissipation. Although, to be honest, I don't recall it getting even warm. It looked like the one in the picture at the link below. But based on what @ICBM said, it sounds like I was being overly cautious.

    http://uk.farnell.com/arcol/hs50-8r2-j/resistor-wirewound-8-2ohm-5-axial/dp/2478211

    It's not a competition
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 26818
    veldt666 said:
    I have a surplus, Marshall 200w a side, Solid state power amp available £100.
    Is that the Integrated Bass System one - 2U rack, black finish, weighs a ton? :)

    I had one of those for years, which I used as my band's main PA amp. Totally bombproof and much louder than only 200W per channel would lead you to expect.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 96
    edited November 8
    @veldt666  ta for the offer. But think I’ll pass one that one!  this is gonna be a lightweight setup for rehearsals.


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  • FX_MunkeeFX_Munkee Frets: 1624
    ICBM said:
    veldt666 said:
    I have a surplus, Marshall 200w a side, Solid state power amp available £100.
    Is that the Integrated Bass System one - 2U rack, black finish, weighs a ton? :)

    I had one of those for years, which I used as my band's main PA amp. Totally bombproof and much louder than only 200W per channel would lead you to expect.
    Sounds like a 9000 power amp. Number of controls, 1, the on off button. Mine was incredibly reliable and yes, it appeared to be constructed from depleted uranium.
    Shot through the heart, and you’re to blame, you give love a bad name. Not to mention archery tuition.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2403
    AndyJP said:
    Hi all,

    I picked up a Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp and a Mesa Boogie Formula Preamp second hand recently. Really liking the sound of them together.  But it's not that loud in mono.

    Running the preamp and poweramp in mono through a Zilla 1x12 Fatbaby with one 16ohm Celestion speaker.  I'm just using a single output from the Marshall power amp.   It's fine for loud home use but maybe not enough headroom for playing with a drummer.

     Do you think it's because I'm running it in mono?  @Clarky would love to hear your opinion if poss. Think you've got the same power amp? 

    Cheers,
    Andy

    I still have the 8008 and it still works great...
    toured the shit out of it and it's been rock solid [only needed a single repair in more than 20 years]..

    as mentioned above, the impedance of your cab is too high.. sure it'll work fine but you'll lose volume..
    you need 8ohm, or better 4ohm speakers..
    I used to run a pair of 4x12 cabs with mine both set to 4ohm.. and it was plenty loud..
    in some venues I was only provided with a single 4x12 which I set to stereo mode... so it turns into a pair of 2x12 cabs at 8ohms.. still plenty loud...

    given that you're playing in mono with a mono preamp I'd suggest this:
    connect the preamp to input jack B.. this is linked mono mode..
    it'll allow you to run a cab in both A and B.. ok so you only have one cab right now, but it's still a good thing to know should you change your mind later..

    get yourself a decent 1x2 [or better 2x12] that can run at 4ohm
    you can't really go wrong with Marshall cabs and they're not that costly [compared to much of the competition]..
    it space / weight is less of an issue I'd personally I'd go with the 2x12
    or better, a nice fat 4x12 1960b cab: I use a pair of these and they are lovely
    the 2x12 [and 4x12] has a much fatter bottom end than the 1x12 simply because it's in a bigger box..
    and it has more apparent volume because you're moving a larger column of air
    used 4x12 cabs [if you are up for using one] in good nick are not that expensive..
    also if you're playing a place and that'll provide backline, Marshall 4x12's are pretty ubiquitous and so very easy for a venue to provide [which is 100% the main reason why I chose the 1960b in the first place]

    set the 8008 to Valvestate mode.. this is because you are not modelling the power amp..
    linear mode is for things like the Axe-FX, Helix etc because in addition to modelling the preamp, they also model the voicing of the power amp..
    Valvestate mode will voice the 8008 and give you a tone and feel that's not a million miles from a Marshall EL34 power amp..
    you'll notice this effect more at gig volume

    Note: the 8008 cannot bridge the channels into a single 160W amp..
    that said, when you run it into a pair of 4ohm 4x12 cabs it'll knock walls down..

    play every note as if it were your first
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2403

    FX_Munkee said:
    ICBM said:
    veldt666 said:
    I have a surplus, Marshall 200w a side, Solid state power amp available £100.
    Is that the Integrated Bass System one - 2U rack, black finish, weighs a ton? :)

    I had one of those for years, which I used as my band's main PA amp. Totally bombproof and much louder than only 200W per channel would lead you to expect.
    Sounds like a 9000 power amp. Number of controls, 1, the on off button. Mine was incredibly reliable and yes, it appeared to be constructed from depleted uranium.
    Uranium is heavy metal

    this can only be a good thing

    I approve of this
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 96
    edited November 8
    @clarky you're a superstar. Ta for all the useful info.  A few things to think about.

    That MESA preamp I've bought is stereo. But I'm using it in mono mode at the moment.   It sounds bloody great with the 8008.  It's a good volume at home for recording.

    Think a 1x12 is plenty for me at the mo.   My band is early stages in a rehearsal room.  It's modern funk stuff.  Maybe will look for a 4ohm speaker. My cab is a Zilla Fat Baby, sounds great. It's 20kg tho and could prob find a lightweight 2x12 at a similar weight.

    Or if wanted to keep my cab maybe switch to a matrix gt power amp?  Would that work ok with my current 1x12 cab?  would rather not do this as I like the Marshall 8008 sound.

    Lot's of options anyway. cheers all!
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2403
    a Marshall 1936 2x12 [8ohm mono / 16ohm stereo] is 24kg

    a Matrix will work with your 1x12.. but it's still 16ohm so you'll get a level drop
    I switched to the Matrix because it's more powerful than the 8008 [not that the 8008 wasn't enough] and mostly because it's about 1 1/2 kg lighter..
    which given that I fly to most of my gigs matters..

    the Matrix has no 'voice'.. so it's best suited to modellers
    stick with the 8008 and get a 4x12 or 2..
    and deafen 'em to deff... lol..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • AndyJPAndyJP Frets: 96
    Deafen em to deff. Like that!
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