Are Ebony finger boards better?

ddlooping

Ebony boards are not better, Pau Ferro ones are. :P

Bucket

richardhomer said:

I thought this was a temporary arrangement after Gibson's timber 'difficulties'.... Seems like they've used the raid as an opportunity to permanently cheapen an iconic guitar....

I think Richlite is a good idea.

Sooner or later the tropical hardwoods will run out and we'll all be playing stuff with synthetic boards anyway. I'm surprised it hasn't really caught on yet. I want to try a Richlite board actually.

Also, the use of man-made materials should allow for some really cool patterns to be used on fancier guitars.

[Deleted User]

Bucket;16177" said:

I think Richlite is a good idea.

Sooner or later the tropical hardwoods will run out and we'll all be playing stuff with synthetic boards anyway. I'm surprised it hasn't really caught on yet. I want to try a Richlite board actually.

Also, the use of man-made materials should allow for some really cool patterns to be used on fancier guitars.

I agree man-made materials will play a bigger part in instrument manufacture in the future. Martin use them on lower end models for fingerboards and bridges. Taylor (see link which Octatonic has posted) are making positive moves to sustain supply.

In particular, bass players have embraced none-wood elements in their instruments for years (Status/Steinberger, et al).

My beef with Gibson is that the LPC represents the top of their range (outside of Historics). If Martin can produce guitars with ebony boards that retail at £1800 or so, I don't see why Gibson can't.

ROOG

Interesting and rather sobering read your link Octatonic, thanks.   

dindude

ROOG said:

Interesting and rather sobering read your link Octatonic, thanks.   

+1, and a very different approach to Gibsons moaning.

WezV

ddlooping said:

Ebony boards are not better, Pau Ferro ones are. :P

 nah, Pau Ferro is ok but its nothing special.  to me Pau ferro is to Indian rosewood what Indian is to Brazilian... an acceptable alternative but you find yourself missing something of the more expensive rarer wood.   of course i am all for alternatives and will happily use pau ferro - although i do often find the paler brickish  colour a bit meh.     Fender have been using pau ferro for quite a while though

Personally i love the feel of proper ebony, richlite seems to capture most of this but I am not sure about the tone yet - just doign my first richlite board at the moment.   i dont care if ebony is perfectly black, it can always be dyed, but it has to feel totally smooth and sleek.   "plays like butter" if you please

fretfinder

"Plays like butter." Aaaargh....!!!  :-S

WezV

couldn't resist

[Deleted User]

WezV;16210" said:

"plays like butter"

Because the rest of your post was good, I'll resist the temptation to facepalm you for this....

ddlooping

WezV said:

ddlooping said:

Ebony boards are not better, Pau Ferro ones are. :P

   nah, Pau Ferro is ok but its nothing special.  to me Pau ferro is to Indian rosewood what Indian is to Brazilian... an acceptable alternative but you find yourself missing something of the more expensive rarer wood.   of course i am all for alternatives and will happily use pau ferro - although i do often find the paler brickish colour a bit meh...

Would you describe this as a paler brickish colour?  :-O
It does look better now, slightly oiled.

According to the tinternet, Pau Ferro is supposed to be in between Maple and Rosewood in terms of "tone".
Some figures related to density, weight and strength...

                                                    Janka (lb)  (lb/cuft)  Strength (psi)
Rosewood, Indian                     3170           53         16,490
Pau ferro, Brazilian ebony    2713           57          22,460
Maple, hard-rock                      1156           35          13,030

Bucket

I'm sure pau ferro is good but I don't really like the look... for me, a fretboard looks best when the colour is uniform. Usually the darker the better (love a slab of jet-black ebony) although I'm a sucker for a nice pale maple board too.

That guitar is nice, Denis. Really like what you've done with the design (would like to see one with an ebony board! )

Sporky

richardhomer said:

I thought this was a temporary arrangement after Gibson's timber 'difficulties'.... Seems like they've used the raid as an opportunity to permanently cheapen an iconic guitar....

Without wanting to sound too hand-wringy, I think the rain forests are more important than historical accuracy.

Bucket

Sporky said:

richardhomer said:

I thought this was a temporary arrangement after Gibson's timber 'difficulties'.... Seems like they've used the raid as an opportunity to permanently cheapen an iconic guitar....

Without wanting to sound too hand-wringy, I think the rain forests are more important than historical accuracy.

This too.

WezV

ddlooping said:

WezV said:

ddlooping said:

Ebony boards are not better, Pau Ferro ones are. :P

   nah, Pau Ferro is ok but its nothing special.  to me Pau ferro is to Indian rosewood what Indian is to Brazilian... an acceptable alternative but you find yourself missing something of the more expensive rarer wood.   of course i am all for alternatives and will happily use pau ferro - although i do often find the paler brickish colour a bit meh...

Would you describe this as a paler brickish colour?  :-O
It does look better now, slightly oiled.

According to the tinternet, Pau Ferro is supposed to be in between Maple and Rosewood in terms of "tone".
Some figures related to density, weight and strength...

                                                    Janka (lb)  (lb/cuft)  Strength (psi)
Rosewood, Indian                     3170           53         16,490
Pau ferro, Brazilian ebony    2713           57          22,460
Maple, hard-rock                      1156           35          13,030

yes, it clearly has a redder tone than good indian rosewood.    there is quite a bit of crossover and you should always judge individual pieces of wood on their merits.   but on average pau ferro is dark tan/brick red/brown as opposed to indian rosewood which is brown/dark brown/almost purple

i did mention i would still happily use it, and on a black guitar the redder toned wood does provide a nice contrast.

WezV

this seems fairly representative of my experience, although i would say his pau ferro examples are very pale

http://aperioguitar.com/fingerboard-woods/

[Deleted User]

Bucket;16268" said:

Sporky said:



richardhomer said:I thought this was a temporary arrangement after Gibson's timber 'difficulties'.... Seems like they've used the raid as an opportunity to permanently cheapen an iconic guitar....










Without wanting to sound too hand-wringy, I think the rain forests are more important than historical accuracy.





This too.

According to the vid on the Taylor site, they've got access to piles of the stuff, which Bob Taylor seems happy to supply to anyone who'll buy it....

To the best of my knowledge, Gibson are happy to provide you with an ebony board on Historic Customs; they will however charge you more for it....

I presume your guitar buying decisions are based on environmental impact alone? FWIW, I have one guitar with an ebony board which I've owned for 20 years....

Sporky

richardhomer said:

I presume your guitar buying decisions are based on environmental impact alone?

Why would you presume that? I've not bought a guitar in several years.

The ones I make now are from sustainable forestry, or timber I've bought from people who've given up building, so yes, I do consider the environmental implications. Why buy something destructive when you can buy something responsible?

[Deleted User]

Sporky;16339" said:

richardhomer said:I presume your guitar buying decisions are based on environmental impact alone?





Why would you presume that? I've not bought a guitar in several years.

The ones I make now are from sustainable forestry, or timber I've bought from people who've given up building, so yes, I do consider the environmental implications. Why buy something destructive when you can buy something responsible?

I am NOT advocating reckless use of rare woods; I am saying that Gibson want customers to pay a premium for a Custom, even though the constituent parts are not 'premium'.

As I've stated in other contributions to this thread, I have no problem with makers using alternatives (man made or otherwise) - provided the price reflects what you are getting.

You seem to be trying to position me as a Clarksonesque advocate of using the world's precious resources until they are used up; nothing I have said should suggest this is the case.

Having reread this draft, it sounds quite defensive. This is regrettable, as I have not said anything which requires defending.....

ICBM

I think buyers now need to accept that if you want a classic Gibson made the traditional way from traditional materials, you have to go to the Historic models.

I don't think this is a problem, although I think it would be much better if the 'modernised' guitars were also improved in other ways which would make them less prone to damage. After all, if you're going to make a Les Paul Standard that's a semi-acoustic and a Les Paul Custom with a plastic fingerboard, why not reinforce the headstock with a carbon fibre inset that you can't even see from the outside?

It baffles and annoys me that they'll happily change something to save money or weight and claim it doesn't affect the tone, but won't change something that hundreds or maybe even thousands of unlucky owners a year find out the hard way is a major design flaw.

jimmyd

Bucket said:

I'm sure pau ferro is good but I don't really like the look... for me, a fretboard looks best when the colour is uniform. Usually the darker the better (love a slab of jet-black ebony) although I'm a sucker for a nice pale maple board too.

That guitar is nice, Denis. Really like what you've done with the design (would like to see one with an ebony board! )

+1.  Jet black fret boards are teh awesomez.  Especially on tasteless 80s style rock machines...

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy351/jamesmdarley/Jacksonred_zps9383c21c.jpg