Is there a pedal switcher that can do this?

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TrudeTrude Frets: 914
I've not used a pedal loop switcher unit before, but it seems like the individual pedals within a patch generally only switch loops in or out, right?  Or can some of them also send MIDI commands?

If I wanted to use a L6 M5 (or maybe an H9) as a multifunctional pedal within a looper system, would it be possible via MIDI to have three or four switches within a patch that will activate the loop, and also switch the M5 to a specific patch?  So, for example I could have Chorus,. Phaser and Trem, all coming from the M5, individually switchable via assigned pedals within a patch (only one could be active at once, of course).

Can anyone recommend a looper/switcher that can do this?  

Some of the gear, some idea

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  • sgosdensgosden Frets: 1993

    Boss es5/8 MS3 ( I believe),

     gigrig G2,

    Decibel 11 switch Dr,

     maybe even the buzz electronics midi switcher

    various GLAb switchers

    Musicom switcher...


    Basically Any pedal switcher that can send a MIDI programme change should be able to achieve this :)


    How many other pedals would you want to control, and what sort of budget are you looking at?

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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    So they can all send out a different MIDI command per button within a patch?  (not simply a programme change per patch) Cool!

    I'm only hypothesising at the moment - this function would be a prerequisite for me considering any kind of switcher, so now I guess I need to do a bit more research...
    Some of the gear, some idea

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  • TateFXTateFX Frets: 114
    tFB Trader
    As above most will do this. I have a Musicom I use it for Midi.

    I have one button that turns on loop 1 (my SD1), switches on my DD500 and changes the patch on midi ch1. Then switches on and changes the patch on my line 6 M5 on midi ch2. 
    Formerly Stu_Tate
    Tate FX
    www.TateFX.co.uk
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  • longilongi Frets: 95
    I'm using Joyo PXL Live to switch patches on AN Zoom MS70CDR, it banks up and down patches no problem. I also have an M5 which also has no problem banking up and down patches. 
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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    Cool stuff @longi ; - does the Joyo do MIDI over USB, or do you have some kind of adapter for the CDR? 
    Some of the gear, some idea

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  • longilongi Frets: 95
    No,  I had to get a Kenton Midi USB Host to allow the MS70CDR to interface to the PXL Live. It works very well. 
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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    Presumably I could set it up to deactivate the chorus footswitch automatically when you hit the phaser (for example), since they're mutually exclusive?
    Some of the gear, some idea

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  • PhilMPhilM Frets: 278
    With the Boss MS3 you can send 4 different MIDI PC messages per patch change, as well as assigning CC information to the footswitches etc. You could set it to turn things on and off as you describe. Plus you get 3 switchable pedal loops, and 120 built-in effects.
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  • JayGeeJayGee Frets: 1254
    Trude said:
    So they can all send out a different MIDI command per button within a patch?  (not simply a programme change per patch) Cool!

    I'm only hypothesising at the moment - this function would be a prerequisite for me considering any kind of switcher, so now I guess I need to do a bit more research...

    I do something like this with a Joyo PXL (to select presets on a TC Alter Ego X4 and channels on a Blackstar Series One amp) and have a number of patches which are identical in terms of which loops are active but have different MIDI PC messages associated with them.

    IIRC I can trigger 2 MIDI “events” for a patch being selected and 2 (potentially different) events on a patch being deselected (by treading on the same footswitch again to de-activate all the loops) where each “event” is either a PC or a CC message. In my case several of my patches are actually all loops deactivated and selecting/deselecting that patch simply toggles the amp between 2 specific channels by sending appropriate MIDI messages. 
    Don't ask me, I just play the damned thing...
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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    PhilM said:
    With the Boss MS3 you can send 4 different MIDI PC messages per patch change, as well as assigning CC information to the footswitches etc. You could set it to turn things on and off as you describe. Plus you get 3 switchable pedal loops, and 120 built-in effects.
    I do like the idea of the MS3, but I can't get my head around how only 4 footswitches per patch would be workable, especially if you use up two or three of those for activating loops.  I think I'd end up drowning in patches that cover the various combinations for different songs, and then I'd be back to tap-dancing to cue up each patch as I go through the set.

    Do you mostly work by switching patches, or by manually toggling stuff within patches?
    Some of the gear, some idea

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  • The Morningstar MC6 + the new loop switcher will do everything you want. The MC6 has 6 buttons which you can program to do whatever you want. Each button can send up to 8 simultaneous midi messages (of any kind) and it has 30 banks. They’ve just released the 5 loop midi switcher which works with it. Both are tiny - the latter would fit under a Pedaltrain. 
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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    @GavRichList - very interesting!  And it does MIDI over USB, so one of these plus a Zoom CDR would be pretty damn powerful...
    Some of the gear, some idea

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  • I have the MC6... and will probably end up with the looper too. The MC6 is exceptional, I can say that. 
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 1283
    Look at the midi mapper made by Osmosis, you'd certainly want something like that if you had a G2 and wanted to push Midi much, but it might also help with other units
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12645
    The G2 definitely does this - my board has an M5 on there. I use it for reverb on some patches, mods on others and even use one of the drive sounds. Using the G2's clever routing, you can change the order of the loops to put the M5 in the right place in the signal chain at the same time as switching sounds. Oh and its seemless...
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • PhilMPhilM Frets: 278
    edited November 2017
    Trude said:
    PhilM said:
    With the Boss MS3 you can send 4 different MIDI PC messages per patch change, as well as assigning CC information to the footswitches etc. You could set it to turn things on and off as you describe. Plus you get 3 switchable pedal loops, and 120 built-in effects.
    I do like the idea of the MS3, but I can't get my head around how only 4 footswitches per patch would be workable, especially if you use up two or three of those for activating loops.  I think I'd end up drowning in patches that cover the various combinations for different songs, and then I'd be back to tap-dancing to cue up each patch as I go through the set.

    Do you mostly work by switching patches, or by manually toggling stuff within patches?
    This is going to be a lengthy one, sorry in advance for that!

    Background - I'm in a covers band that plays all sorts, but we sound like us playing covers, not in any way attempting to sound 100% like the original (I gave up chasing after someone else's tone 20-odd years ago). For this I mostly need a few simple base sounds in terms of OD/Distortion etc. I mostly play a HSS strat, although will sometimes drag out the LP or the PRS CU24 depending on the song/my mood/how my fingers feel. Like most, I've tried all sorts of stuff over the years but am quite happy with where I'm at currently. 

    Current set up is GTR (cable or wireless) > Mooer Yellow Comp (Subtle, always on) > Boss MS3 > Vox AV60 into the input. I have the amp set up as a big, clean Fender twin and use one channel for the Strats and the other for the LP/PRS. Both set clean. I switch channels when I switch guitars.

    In one loop of the MS3 I have my drive pedals. I have a few spares and can swap easily enough but I currently have a ToneCity Sweet Cream, a TC Dark Matter and a self-assembled TImmy clone. I can pretty much get 99% of what I need from these pedals. Putting them in one loop might seem strange but let me explain why...

    I really don't get on with programmable drives and distortions, as I find myself tweaking them at different venues and volumes. I much prefer having analogue pedals with knobs that I can move quickly and easily. Knobs that will change the whole sound that night - not just that one patch. I can stack them at will, and I can change my mind about my sound in a particular song. If I feel Wicked Game would work better with a bit more crunch I can just activate that loop and step on the Sweet Cream. I can also quickly switch back to totally clean by turning that loop off - instead of reaching for the back of the board and turning 1/2/3 pedals off. I use one patch per song, and all I have to remember is which drive pedals need to be active. I can also use the built-in drives and boosts should I find myself needing a Fuzz or something for one song.

    Back to your question about the footswitches - with the MS3 you can actually make each switch do up to 9 simultaneous things in manual mode. All of my patches have switch 4 assigned as Solo boost, which turns on FX2 (Graphic EQ) and a bit of delay, and sometimes extra post-drive compression if required. With some patches, the same switch turns OFF modulation and turns on the drive pedal loop, in addition to the FX2/Delay/Comp. All seamless, all with one switch.

    The assigned functions don't have to be simply on or off either - you can actually vary the value of ANY parameter on any effect by assigning that to a switch. As another example, I have a patch where switch 1 will turn on parallel delays (Edge style), increase the reverb time and drop the level of the signal pre-drive pedals to make the guitar sit back in the mix a little. Pressing it again takes me back to where I was before. Switch 4 on that patch alters the delay mode to single, changes the time and repeats, turns off the level drop, turns the comp on, turns the Reverb time up, and activates FX2 as a solo boost.

    I've yet to run out of switches despite some pretty complicated patches - although some patches literally have just Dirt Loop and Solo boost. I do have an external 2 button switch to do patch up/down and an external expression pedal, mostly for volume. That said, I could also control lots of parameters at once with that. Rocking it forward could increase drive and delay while decreasing chorus and reverb for example.

    One important downside against other switchers like the G2 is that you can't split the loops, but you can put them anywhere in the internal signal chain. Boss did this to avoid too many D>A A>D trips I suspect.

    FWIW, If I was going to add an M5 I'd probably put it after the MS3 and control it with MIDI.

    Hope that's more use than waffle

    PS - All fits comfortably on a PT Classic JR, with a CS7 underneath powering it all.




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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    @PhilM - wow, thanks so much for taking the time!

    It sounds like we're very similar in a lot of ways.  I have the same approach to drive sounds, always preferring to have hands-on global control via stomps, rather then locking settings into presets.

    I also cover a lot of different styles, but I don't think I could work with 1 patch per song.  I'm more likely to try squeezing as much flexibility as possible out of a couple of basic patches, adding layers here and there as the whim takes me.  There'd be the odd song needing something more specific, and for these I'd add dedicated patches.

    I'm interested in your method though.  How do you manage with varying set-list ordering?  Is there an easy way to re-order patches to match a set?  (ours vary quite a lot from gig to gig).  Or do you have to tap up and down banks a lot between songs?
    Some of the gear, some idea

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  • PhilMPhilM Frets: 278
    Trude said:
    @PhilM - wow, thanks so much for taking the time!

    It sounds like we're very similar in a lot of ways.  I have the same approach to drive sounds, always preferring to have hands-on global control via stomps, rather then locking settings into presets.

    I also cover a lot of different styles, but I don't think I could work with 1 patch per song.  I'm more likely to try squeezing as much flexibility as possible out of a couple of basic patches, adding layers here and there as the whim takes me.  There'd be the odd song needing something more specific, and for these I'd add dedicated patches.

    I'm interested in your method though.  How do you manage with varying set-list ordering?  Is there an easy way to re-order patches to match a set?  (ours vary quite a lot from gig to gig).  Or do you have to tap up and down banks a lot between songs?
    No worries, happy to help. Something else I forgot - you can also set the tuner to bypass mode instead of mute, so you've got a quick way of returning to something totally clean and unaffected. 

    The online editor also manages patches and has a set-list function. I don't really use it for editing patches, just moving them around. You can also rearrange them on the MS3 itself using a cut/copy/swap/paste style write function.

    There is a slight (measurable in milliseconds) gap when switching between patches and reverb/delay tails don't carry over. Hardly noticeable, but if it became an issue, an external reverb pedal would hide that I suspect. The gap doesn't occur when switching effects on and off in manual mode - and reverb/delay tails carry on exactly as expected.
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