Modes: Aaaaarrrggghhhh !

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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1133
    edited November 2017
    Some great comments so far...

    Now, if a picture paints a thousand words, then what is a video worth ?

    It is quite easy once you get your head around the concept, but that takes some doing !
    I thought that these videos, between them, explained things quite well.


    Duration 11:50
    https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjyDx4647QA

    And Rob Chapman (no, don't start!) explains things pretty well here in this old video (if I have the right ones)

    Learn the modes In Just 15 minutes - Part One (Very easy lesson)


    Duration 7:46
    https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKbPIGnqt80


    Duration 7:45
    https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uhN5h1o7ww

    Plenty more on YouTube, sometimes it just takes time to read and watch different approaches, looking at the same thing from different angles, and then the penny slowly drops, HTH D 

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  • PhiltrePhiltre Frets: 4164
    A Dorian, C Lydian, and D Mixolydian share the same notes - C D E F# G A B C - but it depends on the tonal centre.

    If the anchor bass is a C then we hear the typical Zappa Lydian mode (solo on "Inca Roads"), if it's an A then it's Dorian (solo on "The Torture Never Stops") and centring on D will give more of a bluesy type thing.

    But think about it in terms of chords - vamp on A minor, C major and D major and all those notes fit in nicely. Choose a tonal centre and it turns into, "Hey Ma, I'm improvising in D Mixolydian!"
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  • Viz, in your explanation of modes (the ‘relative’ rather than ‘absolute’ option) you note an example of playing I, ii and V chords.
    You note, initially, the key of G. However for E Mixolydian shouldn’t that be E Aeolian - a vi chord with the diatonic scale from E F# G A B C D E ? You seem to have taken E Mixolydian from A Dorian....confused, much
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  • Clarky, i would probably only answer in the affirmative to your third option.
    Is this possibly a problem with learning modes...that is trying to learn it by itself where, in reality, it really requires accompaniment to discern the nuances ?
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  • Thanks to all other commenters....there’s a good few things to try and get a handle on with some interesting vids.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    Brad said:

    P.s *Pedant Alert* @Viz the V chord in G is D7 so it's D Mixolydian... wink     
    lol ta - corrected! I'd done the whole think in A originally but changed it to G and forgot to change the V chord :D
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2177
    edited November 2017
    sm55onl said:
    Viz, in your explanation of modes (the ‘relative’ rather than ‘absolute’ option) you note an example of playing I, ii and V chords.
    You note, initially, the key of G. However for E Mixolydian shouldn’t that be E Aeolian - a vi chord with the diatonic scale from E F# G A B C D E ? You seem to have taken E Mixolydian from A Dorian....confused, much
    I think that might be a typo. I believe it should be D Mixolydian, as D is the V of the key of G.

    Edit: Beat me to it.
    It's not a competition.
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  • Int’resting vid here...
    https://youtu.be/CTYJgmEvcKA
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    sm55onl said:
    Clarky, i would probably only answer in the affirmative to your third option.
    Is this possibly a problem with learning modes...that is trying to learn it by itself where, in reality, it really requires accompaniment to discern the nuances ?
    ah ok..
    if you want to learn them face to face, and don't live millions of miles from Berkshire, you can book a one off face to face session with me and I'll walk you through them..
    they're not that difficult when the penny drops..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • RMJ said:
    I think of them (incorrectly I'm sure) as pentatonic scales with two additional intervals. The choice of intervals affects the 'mood' of what you're playing. 

    Check out David Walliman on YouTube. He has some visa that break modes down quite nicely. 
    Yep, this is the way I think of them too- there’s also a Guthrie Govan vid out there too with him talking about them in this way.

     I think the hardest thing for my students to learn is WHERE to use each one. Most find they’re already doing it without actually labelling it. It’s getting to know the sound of each mode and and example piece of music that highlights that sound. For example, the old satriani Classic ‘flying In a blue dream’ quite nicely outlines the Lydian sound in the first part of the track. I’ll even use something like ‘September’ by Earth Wind and Fire- ‘A’ major through the most part of the (verse) sequence then changing to ‘A’ mixolydian over the last chord to highlight the b7. It’s the much needed ‘ear training’ that’s needed, not just learning a shape. 
    Just my take on it...
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    There are character notes in each mode, you need to be able to hear them, because they're the distinguishing sound of the scale, used to create tension and resolution.  You can create Modal chords from a Mode.

    Example: D Dorian has the character note "B".

    Dorian Chords can be created by using every 4th note of the Mode, or for the more adventurous every 7th note (reversed 2nds)
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • "1st Mode" = The major scale in the key you want
    2nd mode (the Dorian) = The same scale but played from its second note
    3rd mode (the Phrygian) = The same scale but played from its third note
    etc

    EG

    CDEFGAB = Ionian
    DEFGABC = Dorian
    EFGACBD = Phrygian

    You don't have to play them against the same bass note. EG Brick in the Wall is D Dorian. The tune uses notes from D Dorian and is harmonised by chords from the same key

    You can if you like try to construct a tune (with its harmonies) in a modal manner (check out Kind of Blue by Miles Davis), or consider folky tunes in the Aeolian mode (Natural minor scale).


    Or you can just treat these things as interesting musical constructs, and see how tweaking the Lydian mode by flattening its 4th degree gives you a new major scale starting on the 4th note of the major scale you started with (and thus construct the cycle of 4ths and show how flat keys get their key signatures), or  how tweaking the Mixolydian mode by sharpening its 7th degree gives you a new major scale starting on the 5th note of the major scale you started with (and thus construct the cycle of 5ths and show how sharp keys get their key signatures).

    I have just started playing Electric Guitar but dabbled with Bass and Acoustic on and off....i have learnt some basic open and barre chords and a few scales ect....and for ages the modes baffled me but i learnt the C major scale and it's modes as you put it....obviously starting on the root then using same notes but starting at d, e, f, g, a, b...back to c....good explanation by the way 

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  • FarleyUKFarleyUK Frets: 2377
    edited February 2018
    I'm just learning modes now, after being stuck in a rut of playing the Pentatonic Blues scales over everything.... and yep, it's pretty confusing, but this thread has helped.

    Managed to figure out that you can play B Mixolydian (I think, from memory) over the solo of Show Me The Way by Peter Frampton - although I'm taking the approach of adding in both the blues notes AND the mixolydian notes. Sounds pretty good to my ears anyway!

    EDIT - it's actually A Mixolydian..... with a B minor pentatonic shape over the top if you want. Plus blues notes if required.
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  • JAYJOJAYJO Frets: 1526
    FarleyUK said:
    I'm just learning modes now, after being stuck in a rut of playing the Pentatonic Blues scales over everything.... and yep, it's pretty confusing, but this thread has helped.

    Managed to figure out that you can play B Mixolydian (I think, from memory) over the solo of Show Me The Way by Peter Frampton - although I'm taking the approach of adding in both the blues notes AND the mixolydian notes. Sounds pretty good to my ears anyway!
    I Followed a link from here to youtube David Walliman. He does some excellent lessons linking pentatonic scales and the modes. You wont be disappointed if you have a look. Hes got lots of tutorials and imo hes an excellent tutor. 
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  • Flink_PoydFlink_Poyd Frets: 2490
    Modes have just clicked for me this weekend. 
     A week ago I looked at this and went "huh?"
    http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/122331/

    http://modewheel.co.uk/

    Now I look at it and go "yay!"
    Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow.....


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  • Once you've learned the Major modes then if you get bored of those, you can always learn the melodic minor modes !


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