Ebay fun - returns!!!!

bgmartinsbridge

So I listed a set of pickups (old swap out and swap in job, not sat in a drawer for years) on ebay, sold them within 20 mins. 

Totally immaculate.

Sent special delivery, at an extra cost to myself. 

Got an email today saying item not as described, return expected.

I copied the detail from the manufacturer'  site into my listing and I'm being told the output differs from the manufacturer, with one pup 0.1k under and the other 0.7k under.
(7.7 V 8.4).

Obv nothing you can do with ebay - please return for a full refund and I'll take the hit on  postage and then relist.

This is why I always only do face to face and should never have used ebay - arghhh!!!! 

Jack_

That's comical.

You wouldn't even notice those output differences in the real world.

Sounds like buyers remorse, any excuse to get his money back.

Panama_Jack666

Ridiculous!

bgmartinsbridge

I was thinking that re the output - can someone really tell the difference?

Does sound like buyers remorse. 

TonyR

Just make sure you get your original pickups back and not some dodgy cheap ones that have been swapped out for yours...

WezV

Does the manufacturers site state anything about tolerance or approximate readings?  +/-20% isn’t unusual for other components, Pickups are almost always a hell of a lot closer than that

Doesnt solve the issue, return for refund is the best option 

bazxkr

Perhaps I'm getting cynical in my dotage years but my money is on you not getting back the same pups you sent

Ossyrocks

Sorry you feel the need to vent on here Brad. I’m the guy who bought them and the one returning them.

When you buy a set of Bare Knuckle Mules (I already have a set btw), you should expect that the bridge pickup is as hot as it should be. In this case, it’s quite a way short, and not as described. It’s either a custom order low wind, a neck pickup, or faulty.

It’s perfectly reasonable to want to return them in this case. And, they are being returned by courier, insured at full value, at my cost.

Thanks,
Rob

WezV

Makes me wonder what is an acceptable variance on a hand wound product.

it also makes me wonder if the approximate readings provided by BKP are with a cover on or off, potted or in potted,  whether they focus more on turn count than DC resistance, and what temperature the readings were done at.

i have had enough BKP’s to know they can vary from stated spec just as much as any other hand wound pickup.

Has either of you asked BKP if it’s within tolerance?  It does seem low, but it’s not the most reliable measure at the best of times.  Fairly sure Tim has previously said he only includes it because the market expects it.

Edit;  also, it will be unlabelled like all BKP’s... so you never know for sure

Strangefan

Oooooh where's my comfy seat.... 

ICBM

WezV said:

it also makes me wonder if the approximate readings provided by BKP are with a cover on or off, potted or in potted,  whether they focus more on turn count than DC resistance, and what temperature the readings were done at.

It also makes me wonder if the multimeter is calibrated accurately.

WezV

ICBM said:

WezV said:

it also makes me wonder if the approximate readings provided by BKP are with a cover on or off, potted or in potted,  whether they focus more on turn count than DC resistance, and what temperature the readings were done at.

It also makes me wonder if the multimeter is calibrated accurately.

Indeed.

Ossyrocks

WezV said:

Makes me wonder what is an acceptable variance on a hand wound product.

it also makes me wonder if the approximate readings provided by BKP are with a cover on or off, potted or in potted,  whether they focus more on turn count than DC resistance, and what temperature the readings were done at.

i have had enough BKP’s to know they can vary from stated spec just as much as any other hand wound pickup.

Has either of you asked BKP if it’s within tolerance?  It does seem low, but it’s not the most reliable measure at the best of times.  Fairly sure Tim has previously said he only includes it because the market expects it.

Edit;  also, it will be unlabelled like all BKP’s... so you never know for sure

I’m aware of the variances caused by temperature. When they arrived, they were very cold and the bridge measured 7.2k. The final reading of 7.7k was after three hours close to a radiator, so fully warmed up.

Brad has been great all through this, and has offered a full refund immediately, it’s just I felt I should explain my position here given that a discussion has been started, which is about me.

I don’t think this kind of variation is acceptable for a pickup advertised at 8.4k, which is on the hotter side of vintage PAF outputs. 

Also, as many on here will attest, I can be trusted to return his actual pickups!

Thanks,
Rob

Alegree

Ossyrocks said:

Sorry you feel the need to vent on here Brad. I’m the guy who bought them and the one returning them.

When you buy a set of Bare Knuckle Mules (I already have a set btw), you should expect that the bridge pickup is as hot as it should be. In this case, it’s quite a way short, and not as described. It’s either a custom order low wind, a neck pickup, or faulty.

It’s perfectly reasonable to want to return them in this case. And, they are being returned by courier, insured at full value, at my cost.

Thanks,
Rob

DCR is in no way an indication of output.

There's a very high chance this resistance is due to the cold temperature.

Ossyrocks

Alegree said:

Ossyrocks said:

Sorry you feel the need to vent on here Brad. I’m the guy who bought them and the one returning them.

When you buy a set of Bare Knuckle Mules (I already have a set btw), you should expect that the bridge pickup is as hot as it should be. In this case, it’s quite a way short, and not as described. It’s either a custom order low wind, a neck pickup, or faulty.

It’s perfectly reasonable to want to return them in this case. And, they are being returned by courier, insured at full value, at my cost.

Thanks,
Rob

DCR is in no way an indication of output.

There's a very high chance this resistance is due to the cold temperature.

See my previous post.

Rob

bgmartinsbridge

Rob,
thanks for chiming in and don't have a prob taking them back, it's just frustrating that they're original, untampered with pups and there is a variance from the manufacturers website!!!!!!

WezV

Ossyrocks said:

WezV said:

Makes me wonder what is an acceptable variance on a hand wound product.

it also makes me wonder if the approximate readings provided by BKP are with a cover on or off, potted or in potted,  whether they focus more on turn count than DC resistance, and what temperature the readings were done at.

i have had enough BKP’s to know they can vary from stated spec just as much as any other hand wound pickup.

Has either of you asked BKP if it’s within tolerance?  It does seem low, but it’s not the most reliable measure at the best of times.  Fairly sure Tim has previously said he only includes it because the market expects it.

Edit;  also, it will be unlabelled like all BKP’s... so you never know for sure

I’m aware of the variances caused by temperature. When they arrived, they were very cold and the bridge measured 7.2k. The final reading of 7.7k was after three hours close to a radiator, so fully warmed up.

Brad has been great all through this, and has offered a full refund immediately, it’s just I felt I should explain my position here given that a discussion has been started, which is about me.

I don’t think this kind of variation is acceptable for a pickup advertised at 8.4k, which is on the hotter side of vintage PAF outputs. 

Also, as many on here will attest, I can be trusted to return his actual pickups!

Thanks,
Rob

I wasn’t trying to argue.  The situation raises interesting questions.

What is an acceptable level of variance?

Will BKP verify them in some way?

are handwound Pickups really going to be more consistent than CNC wound?


you are not happy and will get your money back, but the OP will still want to sell on and needs to consider the next steps to prevent further issues.

ICBM

Have you tried them in the guitar? It would be interesting to know how different they sound from the other ones.

I'm not being funny - now we know it's you and not a typical Ebay idiot buyer , it might be worth properly finding out whether it actually matters. Assuming Brad won't mind, given that they're second hand anyway…

Alegree

Ossyrocks said:

Alegree said:

Ossyrocks said:

Sorry you feel the need to vent on here Brad. I’m the guy who bought them and the one returning them.

When you buy a set of Bare Knuckle Mules (I already have a set btw), you should expect that the bridge pickup is as hot as it should be. In this case, it’s quite a way short, and not as described. It’s either a custom order low wind, a neck pickup, or faulty.

It’s perfectly reasonable to want to return them in this case. And, they are being returned by courier, insured at full value, at my cost.

Thanks,
Rob

DCR is in no way an indication of output.

There's a very high chance this resistance is due to the cold temperature.

See my previous post.

Rob

Then it's within the standard +-10% tolerance.  

bgmartinsbridge

The pups came out of the R0 I got last week on the forum, they sounded spot on. They've been used by three people on this forum now, in the same guitar.

I replaced them with custom buckers and the CBs are far mellower than the Mules.

Fair point on the tolerance 8.4 minus 7.7 is 0.7. So under 10%, which I'd guess BKP will say is fine.

Rob - no offence meant to you by me posting on here :-)

WezV

They also vary the wind if requested with/without covers which is why I mentioned that.  ( if uncovered I would expect a slightly lower wind, might not be relevant here)

you used to have the option to have them unpotted too.  Not ordered any in a while but I wouldn’t be surprised if that affected the reading a bit

if they are a few years old there is a good chance they are an earlier version of the same model and the spec has been tweaked since. Some models have changed spec over the years as the range has been reviewed and consolidated


The reading given given on the site is an average for the standard spec and doesn’t differentiate between the options available