Ebay fun - returns!!!!

SteveRobinson

As an ex-chemist, I think you'd need a mass spectrometer. Maybe you could separate the components chemically but I don't know what process you'd use.

ICBM

SteveRobinson said:

As an ex-chemist, I think you'd need a mass spectrometer. Maybe you could separate the components chemically but I don't know what process you'd use.

As an ex-physicist, I would simply measure the density, which could also be done entirely non-destructively. The different Alnicos have different densities - although Alnico I and Alnico III are the same, I don't think I is normally used in guitar pickups.

Alnico

ICBM said:

............ The different Alnicos have different densities...........

https://i.imgur.com/y8YPmMd.jpg

TTony

SteveRobinson said:

As an ex-chemist, I think you'd need a mass spectrometer. 

ICBM said:
As an ex-physicist, I would simply measure the density

As an ex-economist, I'd just assume that they were the same.




[sorry, old economists' joke!]

xpia98jf

TTony said:

SteveRobinson said:

As an ex-chemist, I think you'd need a mass spectrometer. 

ICBM said:
As an ex-physicist, I would simply measure the density

As an ex-economist, I'd just assume that they were the same.




[sorry, old economists' joke!]

As an ex-accountant I would just fudge the numbers.

poopot

pia98jf said:

TTony said:

SteveRobinson said:

As an ex-chemist, I think you'd need a mass spectrometer. 

ICBM said:
As an ex-physicist, I would simply measure the density

As an ex-economist, I'd just assume that they were the same.




[sorry, old economists' joke!]

As an ex-accountant I would just fudge the numbers.

as an ex philosopher, I would argue there is no magnet!.

tampaxboo

bgmartinsbridge said:

However, PayPal has now been locked as this was done through a 'not as described dispute', rather than just emailing me. 

To unlock PayPal I've had to refund the £130.
However a transfer to PayPal takes 5-7 days.

When I get the pups back Rob will get an immediate refund, as I'll hit the button on ebay and eBay will refund Rob. 

I'll still have a locked PayPal account for the next 5-7 days (and the missus wants to use it to buy presents, which she can't now do).

Brilliant situation and I'm sure everyone and Rob will agree I've done absolutely nothing wrong!!! 

paypal are wildly getting out of control. they as good as have the same power to screw up our lives as banks (if you use them, which i try to do as little as possible now), but are cynically drafting their user terms around the law so they are not obliged to accept any of the responsibility formal banks are obliged to observe. a very dodgy and unattractive company.

Wolfetone said:

I will never ever sell anything on Ebay.

Not that I would ever misrepresent or sell faulty goods knowingly but when I sell on Gumtree, I know it's buyer beware and no returns.

totally agree. i'm of exactly the same view. you may only make 80% of what you could get on a good day on ebay, but with that marginal cut you get 100% less of the anxiety. i value my sanity highly. there are more than enough reasons to lose sleep and punch pillows in this world, without inviting ebay to the party.

the problem is ebay expect sellers to treat cutomers exactly as amazon do, which is just throw lots of money at refunds until they go away, on the basis that over the trading year they will still end up a few billion in pocket. but a £10/£30/£50 etc loss to a private individual only selling something to pay a bill is a big hit. it may wipe out all the money they have made from a months selling.

selling on gumtree (or collecting in person here) the buyer can bring their own dmm, test on the spot, and once buyer is happy with item and seller happy with price, close it and that's an end to it. that's the way selling between individuals used to work until ebay arrived. i bought all my first gear like that and it works fine.
obviously ebay still has a place if you are buying frilly knickers from china for a pound (gotta do it).

luckily both the guys involved in this seem to be fairly reasonable and still able to talk to each other, which isn't always how these things end. i hope they work something out. though i can't help feeling they may now wish they had moved the conversation to PMs as soon as they realised who they were. dirty laundry in public is great spectator sport, but a poor mediation tool.

RiftAmps

I've been reading this thread with interest, and want to applaud both @bgmartinsbridge and @Ossyrocks for being open and honest on the forum. A difficult and awkward situation, but dealt with quite reasonably.

There is one thing that irks me a little though @Ossyrocks, so would like a little clarification on your position.

You said...

Ossyrocks said:

The plain fact is, I bought some pickups on eBay and the bridge pickup is not per specification, whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant, but it’s something I’m not happy with, so we have agreed a return.

Which is fine, and it is your legal right to do so. But, answer me this...

- If the BKP website stated that the DCR was 8.4k +/- 10%, would you still return them?

- If you tried the pickups in your guitar and found them to be tonal nirvana and perform exactly as you want/need, despite being 'out of spec', would you still return them?

- How close to BKPs current stated spec would they need to be in order for you to keep them...5%, 2%, 1%? What's your tolerance?

Just interested

Ossyrocks

RiftAmps said:

I've been reading this thread with interest, and want to applaud both @bgmartinsbridge and @Ossyrocks for being open and honest on the forum. A difficult and awkward situation, but dealt with quite reasonably.

There is one thing that irks me a little though @Ossyrocks, so would like a little clarification on your position.

You said...

Ossyrocks said:

The plain fact is, I bought some pickups on eBay and the bridge pickup is not per specification, whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant, but it’s something I’m not happy with, so we have agreed a return.

Which is fine, and it is your legal right to do so. But, answer me this...

- If the BKP website stated that the DCR was 8.4k +/- 10%, would you still return them?

- If you tried the pickups in your guitar and found them to be tonal nirvana and perform exactly as you want/need, despite being 'out of spec', would you still return them?

- How close to BKPs current stated spec would they need to be in order for you to keep them...5%, 2%, 1%? What's your tolerance?

Just interested

@RiftAmps thanks. If BKP advertised +/- 10% I probably wouldn’t buy them in the first place! I know now that lots of people disagree, but that’s just me. If it was over 8k I could live with it, but I would be happier if it was over spec than under. 
I’m sitting here typing this on my phone, about to go on stage using my vintage Special with A4 Antiquity pickups, bridge 8k dead. It’s barely enough, but I can live with it for the time being. The Mules were supposed to be for this guitar. 
Rob

Jack_

Have you tried turning your amp up?

bbill335

Jack_ said:

Have you tried turning your amp up?

...or raising the pickup height a touch...

Bridgehouse

bbill335 said:

Jack_ said:

Have you tried turning your amp up?

...or raising the pickup height a touch...

Or a boost pedal?

poopot

Ossyrocks said:

I’m sitting here typing this on my phone, about to go on stage using my vintage Special with A4 Antiquity pickups, bridge 8k dead. It’s barely enough, but I can live with it for the time being. The Mules were supposed to be for this guitar. 
Rob

Ok...  using a valve amp? (seen some vid footage so I’m assuming yes)... and also assuming it’s one of many and varied venues around London, the wall voltage will have a greater effect on your tone than a less than 10% discrepancy in dc resistance of a pickup...

Uk voltages are supposed to be 230v (ish) I’ve played at venues where the wall voltage has been as low as 205 and in one venue as high as 248v... this difference in voltage will make your amp run either hotter or colder than what the amp was designed for!...  

Unless you are using some sort of power conditioner to plug your rig into you will NOT be able to guarantee the correct working voltage for your amp... Therefore not guaranteeing your “tone”.

in in addition to the above, once your drummer starts smacking his nice new shiny cymbal that he just can’t live without, no one, including yourself, will notice even the slightest difference in “output” from your pickups!... 

sorry to be be so blunt, but that’s the truth of the matter!.

however, that said, it is still your right to return the pickups if you feel they are not as described... but... imo I think such a small discrepancy in the stated specs as a reason for the return is now well within the realms of “corksniffing”!...

30years of constant gigging, fecking about with building guitars and building amps tells
me I’m right on this one!...

please dont take this as a dig at you either... just felt I should add to the pot!...

peace out!...

stuart.

Freebird

After 5 pages does anybody know what these pickups sound like?

Ossyrocks

pia98jf said:

Ossyrocks said:

RiftAmps said:

I've been reading this thread with interest, and want to applaud both @bgmartinsbridge and @Ossyrocks for being open and honest on the forum. A difficult and awkward situation, but dealt with quite reasonably.

There is one thing that irks me a little though @Ossyrocks, so would like a little clarification on your position.

You said...

Ossyrocks said:

The plain fact is, I bought some pickups on eBay and the bridge pickup is not per specification, whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant, but it’s something I’m not happy with, so we have agreed a return.

Which is fine, and it is your legal right to do so. But, answer me this...

- If the BKP website stated that the DCR was 8.4k +/- 10%, would you still return them?

- If you tried the pickups in your guitar and found them to be tonal nirvana and perform exactly as you want/need, despite being 'out of spec', would you still return them?

- How close to BKPs current stated spec would they need to be in order for you to keep them...5%, 2%, 1%? What's your tolerance?

Just interested

@RiftAmps thanks. If BKP advertised +/- 10% I probably wouldn’t buy them in the first place! I know now that lots of people disagree, but that’s just me. If it was over 8k I could live with it, but I would be happier if it was over spec than under. 
I’m sitting here typing this on my phone, about to go on stage using my vintage Special with A4 Antiquity pickups, bridge 8k dead. It’s barely enough, but I can live with it for the time being. The Mules were supposed to be for this guitar. 
Rob

You’re about to play live and you’re worried  about a pickup on your guitar having a slightly lower output than you would like? Just dial in your amp and effects accordingly then!

Are you serious or are you just joking now?

My amps are non-master volume, they need the guitar to provide the drive. No, I’m not joking. 

Rob

Sync

See this is why guitar music is dying. I doubt any of the great bands and their LGs of the last 60 years took their multimeter shopping. They took their ears and skill (or lack of in some cases).

Heck it was the variances and complete lack of tolerances coupled with the odd manufacturers defect that defined tones of the generations and put instantly recognisable faces on millions of wall posters.

People these days compare specs on guitars, parts and amps like they do on iPhones. 

@Ossyrocks I completely understand your position and if your focus is the technical spec now, then you are completely right to return them and @bgmartinsbridge should have given tested specs on these in the auction or made it clear they were untested.

I presume you read the specs on the auction as tested rather than simply manufacturer quoted? If I have found the right auction it does look like it was clear that these were manufactures info specs not tested.

However, given how focused you are on obtaining the right technical spec, did you ask the OP/Seller to test these to get an accurate output before committing to buy? If not then I would say this is on you especially as you are pretty knowledgeable about this and had very high expectations but are well aware of variances.

Equally, why not approach BKP or one of the other UK based custom winders and have them provide you something bespoke or guaranteed?

ICBM

Freebird said:

After 5 pages does anybody know what these pickups sound like?

I do. They're Bareknuckle Mules - they sound great.

The question is whether they sound exactly the same as another set of Mules, and whether they sound better than a different set of different pickups in a different guitar from the other set of Mules.

There is only one way to answer that.

Bearing in mind that the two guitars won't sound exactly the same even if the pickups do...

Bridgehouse

Sync said

Equally, why not approach BKP or one of the other UK based custom winders and have them provide you something bespoke or guaranteed?

This is a good point. If I had an output problem and felt the bridge was lacking on stage, I would contact one of the very talented winders around (there's a few excellent ones on here) and give them a detailed brief.

You could even specify that you want it to sound like a set of BKMs but hotter... 

Dare I say it, but if your requirements were that detailed I don't think a secondhand set on eBay would have been my starting point...

Gagaryn

poopot said:

Ossyrocks said:

I’m sitting here typing this on my phone, about to go on stage using my vintage Special with A4 Antiquity pickups, bridge 8k dead. It’s barely enough, but I can live with it for the time being. The Mules were supposed to be for this guitar. 
Rob

Uk voltages are supposed to be 220v (ish) I’ve played at venues where the wall voltage has been as low as 205 and in one venue as high as 248v... this difference in voltage will make your amp run either hotter or colder than what the amp was designed for!...  

UK voltages are supposed to be 230v. Used to be 240v, Europe used to be 220v. We harmonised so all should be 230v +/- 10%. So nobody needed to make any changes in practice but in theory we are all the same. 

poopot

Gagaryn said:
UK voltages are supposed to be 230v. Used to be 240v, Europe used to be 220v. We harmonised so all should be 230v +/- 10%. So nobody needed to make any changes in practice but in theory we are all the same. 

Well caught, typo on my part!....