Floating bridge ('vibrato') on Yamaha Pacifica 611 vfm - looking for some help - SORTED!

Voxman

...aka 'tremolo' (albeit term wrongly adopted by Fender!).

The vibrato system on both my PRS and floating bridge Strats is more sensitive to subtle touches of the vibrato arm than the 611's system.  Three springs come as standard and I've read that installing weaker springs will give you more touch control.  So, some vibrato help from all you vibrato experts here would be much appreciated:

1. Assuming that weaker springs will give more 'feel', exactly what springs do I need and where can I buy them?
2. Alternatively, will taking one spring off to leave a 'two-spring' system give the same/similar sensitivity improvement?
3. Are there any downsides to 1 and 2 I should be aware of?

And finally, re 'return to pitch accuracy', the 611 is not as accurate as my PRS or Strats. The bridge is a 6-screw Wilkinson VS50-6 Tremolo Bridge.  Can anyone point me to a  good video that will show me how to set this type of bridge more accurately? There are videos for 6-screw vintage style Strat floating bridges - will these be the right ones to follow?

Also, just a thought, would a spot of WD40 improve the 'return' accuracy - and if so, where exactly should I apply this? (Note: graphite is in nut slots, so the problem isn't there)

guitarmangler

Voxman said:

And finally, re 'return to pitch accuracy', the 611 is not as accurate as my PRS or Strats. The bridge is a 6-screw Wilkinson VS50-6 Tremolo Bridge.  Can anyone point me to a  good video that will show me how to set this type of bridge more accurately? There are videos for 6-screw vintage style Strat floating bridges - will these be the right ones to follow?

Also, just a thought, would a spot of WD40 improve the 'return' accuracy - and if so, where exactly should I apply this? (Note: graphite is in nut slots, so the problem isn't there)

Check the nut and lube that first. 9.5 times out of 10 it's that that's causing the issue. If it's still going out of tune after you've checked the nut, then at least you know it's the bridge.

Voxman

guitarmangler said:

Voxman said:

And finally, re 'return to pitch accuracy', the 611 is not as accurate as my PRS or Strats. The bridge is a 6-screw Wilkinson VS50-6 Tremolo Bridge.  Can anyone point me to a  good video that will show me how to set this type of bridge more accurately? There are videos for 6-screw vintage style Strat floating bridges - will these be the right ones to follow?

Also, just a thought, would a spot of WD40 improve the 'return' accuracy - and if so, where exactly should I apply this? (Note: graphite is in nut slots, so the problem isn't there)

Check the nut and lube that first. 9.5 times out of 10 it's that that's causing the issue. If it's still going out of tune after you've checked the nut, then at least you know it's the bridge.

Thanks, you're spot on that the nut is the first thing to check - which is exactly why I flagged that the nut was well lubricated. 

ICBM

Simple test for where the problem is - make sure the guitar is tuned perfectly, then press the arm down, and let go (don't 'pull' it back up). If it's out of tune, if any of the strings are now sharp, the problem is at the nut end. If any are flat, it's at the bridge end.

If it's at the bridge end, and you have three springs on, are they in a 'fan'? If so, put them straight.

If it's not that there must be some friction somewhere, either at the pivots or because something is contacting the body somewhere it shouldn't.

boogieman

You could take one of the springs out, but you'll inevitably lose some of the tension. That means the trem will be a lot more sensitive, not always a good idea. It will also probably make things worse in coming back to pitch. It's a trade off really but personally I wouldn't have less than three springs in there. I've not heard of lower tension springs tbh, no idea where you'd source them. 

Have you got the bridge set up to float or is it decked?

Wilkinson bridges are usually a step up in quality on the budget bridges and are usually pretty bombproof. If it's not stable and you've checked and lubed the nut I'd have a look at where the bridge pivots first. Make sure the holes in the bridge are smooth, with no burrs, and check the screws haven't got scored or grooved where they touch the edge of the bridge plate. Lastly don't use WD40 to lubricate the pivot points, it doesn't last long, you're better off using graphite or lithium grease. 

mbe

The springs are meant to be under some tension to counteract the force exerted by the strings.

If the springs are not extended in any way when the bridge is at rest then the force exerted by the spring is not within the parameters of the spring constant according to Hooke's Law. Therefore my advice is to remove a spring and adjust the claw to bring the two remaining springs into equilibrium with the force of the strings thereby extending the springs at rest.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Simple test for where the problem is - make sure the guitar is tuned perfectly, then press the arm down, and let go (don't 'pull' it back up). If it's out of tune, if any of the strings are now sharp, the problem is at the nut end. If any are flat, it's at the bridge end.

If it's at the bridge end, and you have three springs on, are they in a 'fan'? If so, put them straight.

If it's not that there must be some friction somewhere, either at the pivots or because something is contacting the body somewhere it shouldn't.

I never have springs in a fan - always straight. Going flat - definitely bridge end problem. I can also physically see that when pushing down the return 'clearance' (angle of floating bridge) is bigger than when pushing up. So, that tells me the bridge set-up is wrong and I'm going to completely re-do it.  I've found the vids and I remember now how to do it.  I'll report back once I'm done.

ICBM

Voxman said:

Going flat - definitely bridge end problem. I can also physically see that when pushing down the return 'clearance' (angle of floating bridge) is bigger than when pushing up. So, that tells me the bridge set-up is wrong and I'm going to completely re-do it.  I've found the vids and I remember now how to do it.  I'll report back once I'm done.

If you can actually see a difference in the angle that's quite severe. My guess would be that it's binding against the body somewhere, either under the plate or against the wall of the block cavity - sometimes caused by finish build-up, but I think that's unlikely on one of these, from memory the finish is quite thin on them.

mbe

Voxman said:
Going flat - definitely bridge end problem. I can also physically see that when pushing down the return 'clearance' (angle of floating bridge) is bigger than when pushing up.

That tells me that there isn't enough spring force to return the bridge to rest.

In my opinion the springs fitted to modern OEM Strat bridges have too high a spring constant.

One can set up a bridge with three springs and say 10 guage strings and find it impossible to put a cigarette paper between the coils. There has to be extension of the spring at rest for it to work properly when pressing down on the bar.

Voxman

SORTED!

I'm an idiot - I'd forgotten to tune the vibrato intervals in and then re-tune the guitar back using the claws, so the pitch return was all wrong. Just finished doing a complete set-up with new strings, action, intonation and vibrato, and my 611 is sweet again, returning to pitch nicely.  

Thanks for all the input guys, but in the end it was my fault - the great videos from Galeazzo Frudua on you tube got me sorted, and I finally understood how to set the vibrato on a 6-screw bridge.