Effects of time on tru oil with some stains

Rabs

The last couple of shows I did I noticed something odd about one of my builds.

Its a blue stained flamed top and when I originally finished it, it looked like this

https://i.imgur.com/qVIwMsn.jpg

Its about a year old now... And check how the finish has changed colour slightly.

https://i.imgur.com/UDt8U6I.jpg

This shows it even more...

https://i.imgur.com/CzoE7i6.jpg

Anyone else experience this??

At some angles and light though it looks a bit more as it did.

https://i.imgur.com/bYIjqen.jpg

WezV

Isn’t this something that happens to a lot of blue stains.   Tru-oil is a bit yellowing but I doubt it’s totally to blame here

Rabs

Well this is my first blue guitar..  I did one do a guitar that came out kind of orangy but that never changed and its a few years old now. The rest are all natural finishes.

That's why im asking..

BUT if you look at the binding and the maple stripe around the side, that also looks like its gone a bit yellow..  Which is why I thought it was the oil...

Im wondering if maybe the oil I used on this build was from an already open bottle and had degraded a bit?

WezV

My first blue stain turned teal as it dried.
Thankfully it looked awesome.

It’s really hard to maintain a strong blue colour when wood is not pure white and finishes are not totally clear.  Both wood and finish will darken with UV exposure and push the finish towards dark green.

some blue pigments fade a bit too.  If you see an old purple PRS it might not have started that colour

WezV

http://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/question-about-colour-fading.10586/

Some examples of colour changing blue here

Rabs

WezV said:

http://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/question-about-colour-fading.10586/

Some examples of colour changing blue here

Wow.. this picture says it all... I feel better about it now.. Thanks     

https://i.imgur.com/WKKTTNz.jpg

TTony

[edit - you beat me to it!]

MartinB

Yes, I think it's a blue thing rather than a tru-oil thing.  I have an alder Jazzmaster body with tru-oil over green stain and the colour has not changed much in four years. 

Megii

I've always fancied some sort of flame or quilt transparent blue finish guitar - but is this a general issue with the colour change?

meltedbuzzbox

I think it looks better now tbh

WezV

Megii said:

I've always fancied some sort of flame or quilt transparent blue finish guitar - but is this a general issue with the colour change?

I don’t think it’s all blue stains.  I have some water based blue stain that has a really vibrant colour, but doesn’t enhance the grain the same way a sprit based stain does.

tbh it’s often a case of wait and see.  I certainly haven’t done enough blues to garantee they won’t fade.

i imagine if Fender and Gibson used a blue pigment in the  early days we would all be chasing blues that do fade.... just like their old reds

Rabs

meltedbuzzbox said:

I think it looks better now tbh

Oh yeah. I don't dislike it.. I just noticed there was a difference and wanted to find out what other people thought..  My first instinct was to say its the oil.. But maybe not so much..   (I still think the oil has had a part in it though)

Talk of aging tru oil finishes.. I saw this vid today where the guy got a guitar back which he made like 8 years ago and finished with oil

Rabs

WezV said:

Megii said:

I've always fancied some sort of flame or quilt transparent blue finish guitar - but is this a general issue with the colour change?

I don’t think it’s all blue stains.  I have some water based blue stain that has a really vibrant colour, but doesn’t enhance the grain the same way a sprit based stain does.

tbh it’s often a case of wait and see.  I certainly haven’t done enough blues to garantee they won’t fade.

i imagine if Fender and Gibson used a blue pigment in the  early days we would all be chasing blues that do fade.... just like their old reds

The stain I used was spirit based..  From Rothko and Frost.

I actually did a vid on it if anyone is interested.

WezV

The tru oil will contribute to the colour change, nitro would too.  Any yellowing finish will.

the PRS’s are a good example because the lacquer yellows less than other finishes,  so you can separate out that variable. 

Rabs

WezV said:

The tru oil will contribute to the colour change, nitro would too.  Any yellowing finish will.

the PRS’s are a good example because the lacquer yellows less than other finishes,  so you can separate out that variable. 

This is why I was asking about Crimson finishing oil...  Apparently it has no tint at all...

I was thinking about using it with their purple stain for a build I will start soonish for a friend of mine which will look (VERY roughly) like this

https://i.imgur.com/KI8T90x.jpg

WezV

Does it garantee no tint after a few years?  

That would be very unusual for an oil finish

Rabs

WezV said:

Does it garantee no tint after a few years?  

That would be very unusual for an oil finish

So it says??

"This oil can give a matte finish or a gloss finish depending on the number of applications.  It penetrates the wood well, dries quickly, is water resistant and will not change colour or crack with age."

https://crimsonguitars.com/store/guitar-finishing-oil/

Oddly enough I have a couple of cans of Tru Oil in spray form..  I haven't used it yet but watched a vid once where someone used it and they said it also had no tint at all.

WezV

The spray tru-oil will be much thinner to work, so probably still tinted if built up heavily.

eze oil doesn’t have much tint, polyx seems light too.  Maybe these modern “oils” are better.  I have not tried the crimson one so can’t compare it to ones I have used

Nomad

Fading has nothing to do with the particular colour, but the pigment or colourant used in the stain. Some pigments are fugitive (prone to fading quickly), others permanent, most somewhere in between. Artists colours come with individual permanence ratings depending on the pigment(s) used to make them. Many historical pigments are fugitive and now have modern substitutes that are much more permanent.

Yellowing of the oil or the wood is also a factor. If you have a blue stain and paint a thin layer of pale, transparent yellow over it, you get a green. Clear oil that yellows will cause the blue to shift towards green over time. Same idea with a yellow base and transparent blue - it leans towards green. If the base starts white and becomes yellow, your blue again shifts towards green over time.

If you want to find out how much the oil yellows, wipe some onto an inert white substrate and leave it for a few months. Cheapie canvas panels from art supply places are good for this. Note that the yellowing process is not simply down to exposure to UV. For example, while it is curing, linseed oil will yellow more readily in the dark than it will in the light.

guitarcookie1

Rabs said:

WezV said:

The tru oil will contribute to the colour change, nitro would too.  Any yellowing finish will.

the PRS’s are a good example because the lacquer yellows less than other finishes,  so you can separate out that variable. 

This is why I was asking about Crimson finishing oil...  Apparently it has no tint at all...

I was thinking about using it with their purple stain for a build I will start soonish for a friend of mine which will look (VERY roughly) like this

https://i.imgur.com/KI8T90x.jpg

Earlier this year I finished an ash Strat body using Crimson Guitars white stain followed by their finishing oil. 

It now has a yellow-ish tint to it, I’m assuming from the oil top coats. 

Adam_MD

A tele i refinished two years ago stained with purple calligraphy ink and finished with wipe on poly using @Andyjr1515’s method has faded considerably in the sun heading towards the same pinky colour old purple prs used to go.  It has to be the sun fading it because the back is much closer to the original colour.  I’ll take some pics later when I get a chance.