Effects of time on tru oil with some stains

Andyjr1515

Adam_MD said:

A tele i refinished two years ago stained with purple calligraphy ink and finished with wipe on poly using @Andyjr1515’s method has faded considerably in the sun heading towards the same pinky colour old purple prs used to go.  It has to be the sun fading it because the back is much closer to the original colour.  I’ll take some pics later when I get a chance. 

That's interesting!  Especially with calligraphy ink as opposed to standard ink which I would have expected to be a higher colour-fastness.  I did contact Diamine to ask if they had fade comparisons for the various colours but never got a response.  They may have thought it was a bit of a trick question.

I was also interested and very surprised at the Rothko and Frost blue example above...the discussions we've all had in the past has been about inks vs 'proper' guitar stains so it's surprising that a modern commercial stain would fade SO much.

I've only relatively recently started using tru-oil with stains (and I pretty much always use ink) and so far no issues.  Ref inks with Ronseal, I've also not had any issues on my own or one's I've built for people.

But, because some of these are actually hanging on my own wall, I thought I'd check.  These two live on wall hangers, and always have done.  It's a bright room but doesn't catch the full midday sunshine.

The one on the left was my mid 2014 TheFretboard challenge build - diamine water based blue and teal inks under Ronseal.  The right one is my GSPBasses Junior, stained with standard Diamine red ink, then tru-oiled, then Ronsealed and has been on the wall since early 2016:


With pickguards off, the left hand one is maybe a little lighter under the pickguard?  Mind you, there's an area on the lower horn exactly the same shade so dunno.  And if it is lighter, is it the varnish that has darkened or the stain?  But the righthand one (ignore the tenon which was always lighter) you can't see the pickguard area at all:






Neither seem to have faded - if anything the left hand one seems to have darkened.

It's a fascinating topic.  I'll have another go at Diamine...

Andyjr1515

Just looked through some old build photos - that blue/teal one always had that lighter patch - so no sign of fade on either guitar.  Maybe I was just lucky with the colours....

Adam_MD

It’s defintely subtle Andy but there’s a section on the front which is definitely lighter/pinker than it used to be.  I’ll try and take some pics when I get a chance later.  Maybe the purple is more susceptible to UV than the teal or red? 

Andyjr1515

Adam_MD said:

It’s defintely subtle Andy but there’s a section on the front which is definitely lighter/pinker than it used to be.  I’ll try and take some pics when I get a chance later.  Maybe the purple is more susceptible to UV than the teal or red? 

I'd like to see the pics if possible.  It's a pity Diamine aren't very responsive...it would be v useful to know which colours are more susceptible - even if you were intending to using them in a fountain pen!

I'm still intrigued by the OP's Rothko blue though.   It's SO faded...

Andyjr1515

Actually, that's just triggered a distant memory.  I think I've seen a chart somewhere of fade resistance from a fountain pen enthusiasts' forum.  I'll try to see if I can find it

Andyjr1515

Andyjr1515 said:

Actually, that's just triggered a distant memory.  I think I've seen a chart somewhere of fade resistance from a fountain pen enthusiasts' forum.  I'll try to see if I can find it

Well blow me...here it is - and it's all Diamine Inks!!!
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/250572-all-diamine-inks-mini-fade-test/

Adam_MD

Andyjr1515 said:

Andyjr1515 said:

Actually, that's just triggered a distant memory.  I think I've seen a chart somewhere of fade resistance from a fountain pen enthusiasts' forum.  I'll try to see if I can find it

Well blow me...here it is - and it's all Diamine Inks!!!
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/250572-all-diamine-inks-mini-fade-test/

Interesting thanks Andy I used the majestic purple on my tele and it’s one of the ones which faded in that rather unscientific test - Majestic Purple (still readable, but not purple)

Ill get some pics up after dinner so you can see the tele colour change 

Rabs

Hmm..  All very interesting guys...

So seeing that red DC above reminded me that I also have one I finished...

Its actually a Gibson and when I bought it someone had sanded the top down.. (I got a good deal on it).. Looked like this

https://i.imgur.com/w1DA1sS.jpg

This was actually the first every major work I had done on a guitar and started my passion off about 6/7 years ago. And I matched the top as well as I could with a Colron red mahogany stain and finished with Nitro..  I just went and took the pickguard off and it hasn't faded a tiny bit..  Maybe reds are just more stable?

https://i.imgur.com/dAOk5oX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lM8Vfn7.jpg

Nomad

Rabs said:

Maybe reds are just more stable?

It has nothing to do with the colour. It's down to the particular properties of the pigment used - how it reacts to light, and things like chemical reactions to environment, coatings, etc.

Rabs

Nomad said:

Rabs said:

Maybe reds are just more stable?

It has nothing to do with the colour. It's down to the particular properties of the pigment used - how it reacts to light, and things like chemical reactions to environment, coatings, etc.

Well I say that from the comment near the top of the page about how this happens to blue stains.

Ohh and by the way. The blue guitar this is about has always been kept in a case..  Has never seen the sun.

WezV

Nomad said:

Rabs said:

Maybe reds are just more stable?

It has nothing to do with the colour. It's down to the particular properties of the pigment used - how it reacts to light, and things like chemical reactions to environment, coatings, etc.

indeed,


and since red has been used throughout the whole lifecycle of the electric guitar we know there are plenty of reds that are not stable..   when gibson tried to solve it they ended up with clownbursts

Megii

WezV said:

Megii said:

I've always fancied some sort of flame or quilt transparent blue finish guitar - but is this a general issue with the colour change?

I don’t think it’s all blue stains.  I have some water based blue stain that has a really vibrant colour, but doesn’t enhance the grain the same way a sprit based stain does.

tbh it’s often a case of wait and see.  I certainly haven’t done enough blues to garantee they won’t fade.

i imagine if Fender and Gibson used a blue pigment in the  early days we would all be chasing blues that do fade.... just like their old reds

If I ever do go for the blue guitar, it may very well be a custom build job, so I think I would want to seek some sort of reassurance from the maker - if they could point to other blue finishes they'd done that had stayed blue, that would help. Cheers for that anyhow @WevV

Adam_MD

@Andyjr1515 ; sorry that took so long I've not had time to get a picture until tonight.  It's turning pink like the old purple prs guitars used to.  Because I see it everyday I hadn't realised just how much it had faded.  I'm now debating whether to strip it and refinish with a different purple stain or just leave it.  I know I don't see it with the scratchplate on but I really loved the original purple.

Andyjr1515

Wow - that's quite dramatic.  I think I'm going to keep a copy of that handwriting test above - probably quite indicative!

GSPBASSES

I'm testing Crimson guitars colours and oil finish, you'll see from the photo several different colours. The idea is these pieces of wood are in my porch that has the sun on it virtually all day. So hopefully it will give us an idea of how these colours and finish reactor sunlight. I have one block of wood on top of the other, so this will tell me how much the colours faded and a small strip would on top of the other block the same reason. It's only been there for about four months now, so too early to say if it's changing or not. Although up to now there is no change in colour whatsoever.

Adam_MD

@GSPBASSES do they have a purple stain?  Once I saw how badly my tele has faded I really want to refinish it. 

GSPBASSES

Yes, they do have purple, actually the wood on the bottom has got purple on it, but it looks blue in the photograph, but it is a beautiful bright purple.

Adam_MD

Excellent thanks for that if there’s been no change in four months it’s definitely better than the calligraphy ink I used originally.  

Rabs

GSPBASSES said:

Yes, they do have purple, actually the wood on the bottom has got purple on it, but it looks blue in the photograph, but it is a beautiful bright purple.

Cool..  thanks for this.. I want the purple stain for one of my up and coming builds..

So please..  The oil..  Does it have any amber tint or is it clear?

GSPBASSES

It dose tint a bit more or less the same as true oil.