Why are volume pedals so damned expensive?

What's Hot
ColsCols Frets: 6953
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/26406-tools-for-the-task-volume-pedals

I mean, surely they're just an expression pedal enclosure and a potentiometer?  Or am I missing something?
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
«1

Comments

  • merlinmerlin Frets: 6594
    Probably because they're the most important box on your board.  ;)

    Not that I'm opinionated or anything!!!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • juansolojuansolo Frets: 1773
    Cost of the enclosures will be most of it. There's a reason why you don't see many DIY wah's for example.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 5reaction image Wisdom
  • expression pedals need be no more expensive than basic wahs. as Juan said, the cost is in the box, and wah 'big boxes with mechanism' are just more involved that just plain 'small boxes'.
    you have chosen an expensive one but far cheaper ones exist that will do the same thing.

    optical control will probably get better (smoother and more reliable) sweep results than a mechanical potentiometer control, but basic morley wahs (optical) are not dramically (double or triple) more expensive than crybabys, so optical volume pedals need not be either.
    i am the hired assassin... the specialist. i introduce myself to you... i'm a sadist.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71953
    If you've ever had to replace the string and spring mechanism on an Ernie Ball volume pedal you will know why they're expensive...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • SporkySporky Frets: 27569
    tampaxboo said:
    expression pedals need be no more expensive than basic wahs.
    Except that it'd mean a complete retooling - a standard wah enclosure doesn't have enough movement to completely rotate a pot, and if it did then there'd be a risk of stamping just a little too hard and damaging the pot.

    So you can't use a wah shell for volume and have it go all the way up and all the way down.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBM said:
    If you've ever had to replace the string and spring mechanism on an Ernie Ball volume pedal you will know why they're expensive...
    true. i only have a 'ye olde' colorsound volume pedal. imagine a chieftan tank mating with a sewing machine and you are about there. brutal but effective.

    alas i know nothing of your good man Ernie or his balls.
    i am the hired assassin... the specialist. i introduce myself to you... i'm a sadist.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Sporky said:
    tampaxboo said:
    expression pedals need be no more expensive than basic wahs.
    Except that it'd mean a complete retooling - a standard wah enclosure doesn't have enough movement to completely rotate a pot, and if it did then there'd be a risk of stamping just a little too hard and damaging the pot.

    So you can't use a wah shell for volume and have it go all the way up and all the way down.
    wouldn't the Morley optical system (vactrol thing) get around that? tune the circuit so the lever gave you optimum parameters for the sensor.
    i've only built tremolos with vactrols but the principle would seem to be transferable.
    i am the hired assassin... the specialist. i introduce myself to you... i'm a sadist.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71953
    edited November 2017
    tampaxboo said:
    Sporky said:
    tampaxboo said:
    expression pedals need be no more expensive than basic wahs.
    Except that it'd mean a complete retooling - a standard wah enclosure doesn't have enough movement to completely rotate a pot, and if it did then there'd be a risk of stamping just a little too hard and damaging the pot.

    So you can't use a wah shell for volume and have it go all the way up and all the way down.
    wouldn't the Morley optical system (vactrol thing) get around that? tune the circuit so the lever gave you optimum parameters for the sensor.
    i've only built tremolos with vactrols but the principle would seem to be transferable.
    The easiest way to get around it would be a custom pot with a taper that only goes 240º (or whatever the travel of a Cry Baby-type mechanism is) round the turn, with zero-resistance parts at the ends. That way the pot would go from off to full without hitting either end stop. The disadvantage is that you'd need a huge order before a pot manufacturer would consider making something like that, even if the unit cost ended up quite low.

    Pots like this do exist, a typical stereo balance control has two half-tracks with the rest of the turn being zero resistance.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBM said:
    tampaxboo said:
    Sporky said:
    tampaxboo said:
    expression pedals need be no more expensive than basic wahs.
    Except that it'd mean a complete retooling - a standard wah enclosure doesn't have enough movement to completely rotate a pot, and if it did then there'd be a risk of stamping just a little too hard and damaging the pot.

    So you can't use a wah shell for volume and have it go all the way up and all the way down.
    wouldn't the Morley optical system (vactrol thing) get around that? tune the circuit so the lever gave you optimum parameters for the sensor.
    i've only built tremolos with vactrols but the principle would seem to be transferable.
    The easiest way to get around it would be a custom pot with a taper that only goes 240º (or whatever the travel of a Cry Baby-type mechanism is) round the turn, with zero-resistance parts at the ends. That way the pot would go from off to full without hitting either end stop. The disadvantage is that you'd need a huge order before a pot manufacturer would consider making something like that, even if the unit cost ended up quite low.

    Pots like this do exist, a typical stereo balance control has two half-tracks with the rest of the turn being zero resistance.
    Juan will understand the tech principle better than i, i'm just an amateur (failed Devi wannabee), but i think you could adjust supporting circuitry to bracket off however much of the sweep you had access to, to function as the max/min volume required.
    i am the hired assassin... the specialist. i introduce myself to you... i'm a sadist.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71953
    tampaxboo said:

    Juan will understand the tech principle better than i, i'm just an amateur (failed Devi wannabee), but i think you could adjust supporting circuitry to bracket off however much of the sweep you had access to, to function as the max/min volume required.
    That would give a very short treadle movement though - the problem is that the physical turn is too small, not too big - and still with the risk or running past the pot's end stop, since the resistance track is all at one end. You need a pot with the resistance in the middle and plain end sections, which as far as I know doesn't exist, although there may be some specific application for them - although whatever it is, I would bet it isn't a 500K Log pot with a 3/8" diameter bushing and 1/4" shaft :).

    The way the Ernie Ball and large Boss ones work is the opposite - the mechanism is capable of exceeding the pot travel, but the linkage has a spring in it - a coil spring in the string on the EB, a flexible metal strip on the Boss - so it doesn't damage the pot.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 2723
    tampaxboo said:
    expression pedals need be no more expensive than basic wahs. as Juan said, the cost is in the box, and wah 'big boxes with mechanism' are just more involved that just plain 'small boxes'.
    you have chosen an expensive one but far cheaper ones exist that will do the same thing.

    optical control will probably get better (smoother and more reliable) sweep results than a mechanical potentiometer control, but basic morley wahs (optical) are not dramically (double or triple) more expensive than crybabys, so optical volume pedals need not be either.

    Optical pedals now fall foul of RoHS, so can't be sold in EU anymore.

    As stated above the real kicker is the cost of the enclosure. Custom enclosures are expensive. There is no real off-the-shelf option (eg Hammond boxes) or economy of scale with other products in the range (eg BOSS compact pedals).

    The cost of the enclosure is generally the single biggest component cost in pedal manufacture.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 2316
    I bought a fender fvp-1 couple of weeks ago. £69  new. Didn't think that was that excessive and it's also not the weight of a tank but solid!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • jpfamps said:

    Optical pedals now fall foul of RoHS, so can't be sold in EU anymore.

    As stated above the real kicker is the cost of the enclosure. Custom enclosures are expensive. There is no real off-the-shelf option (eg Hammond boxes) or economy of scale with other products in the range (eg BOSS compact pedals).

    The cost of the enclosure is generally the single biggest component cost in pedal manufacture.
    i know the optical pedal thing is law now, but i never had trouble getting vactrols or LDRs. still available. some new vactrols have to be subbed for obsolete ones, but usually available.
    https://www.bitsbox.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=302_308&products_id=2096

    is that because there an opt-out for diy parts that doesn't cover pre-made pedals?
    i am the hired assassin... the specialist. i introduce myself to you... i'm a sadist.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 2723
    tampaxboo said:
    jpfamps said:

    Optical pedals now fall foul of RoHS, so can't be sold in EU anymore.

    As stated above the real kicker is the cost of the enclosure. Custom enclosures are expensive. There is no real off-the-shelf option (eg Hammond boxes) or economy of scale with other products in the range (eg BOSS compact pedals).

    The cost of the enclosure is generally the single biggest component cost in pedal manufacture.
    i know the optical pedal thing is law now, but i never had trouble getting vactrols or LDRs. still available. some new vactrols have to be subbed for obsolete ones, but usually available.
    https://www.bitsbox.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=302_308&products_id=2096

    is that because there an opt-out for diy parts that doesn't cover pre-made pedals?
    Yes that's correct.

    You can sell non-RoHS parts, and use them for repairs but you can't use them in new products.


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 7329
    only paid £41 for my Wah/Vol pedal combo just the other week...
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
    __________________________________
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • prowlaprowla Frets: 4896
    Just get a CryBaby and convert it.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • DavidRees said:
    Yes, imo it's the best current option by a large margin.

    it does however weigh a ton, being built like a tank.

    I'd avoid any volume pedal in a crybaby type enclosure, they don't have the sweep range.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Ro_SRo_S Frets: 929
    edited November 2017
    [admin edit - dumb troll comment removed.  Another warning @Ro_s.]
    over 20 effects pedals FOR SALE, click here to see my classifieds thread.   My trading feedback

    Effects for Me & my Monkey    
    YouTube channel     Facebook         Fretboard's "resident pedal supremo" - mgaw

    2reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • markvmarkv Frets: 459

    I'd avoid any volume pedal in a crybaby type enclosure, they don't have the sweep range.
    Yeah I had a cheap passive volume pedal and you could either arrange for it to go from nothing to about half volume, or from half to full volume, but not the whole thing. So it was basically useless.

    I now have a Mission VM Pro, which is in a Cry Baby type enclosure, and has a proper nothing to full volume sweep range. However it does use mechanical pot/rack type operation, so prone to wear (albeit way beyond any use I'm likely to give it).

    It also costs an arm an a leg for what is in theory a simple circuit, albeit one in this case that has a proper internal buffer and some fancy internal switching to match impedances or something (well beyond my electrical knowledge).
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.