Roland JC Jazz Chorus 40 120, 77, 50 Speaker Swap

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JgarJgar Frets: 1
edited November 2017 in Amps
Does anyone have experience swapping speakers in an of the Roland Jazz Chorus amps? Webers, Eminence, Celestions?

I personally own a JC40 and looking to swap one or both speakers. Id like to cut or smooth out some of the high end shrill and spike that happens at high volumes and with my overdrive pedals. Anyone have this problem and found a solution. I run a stereo rig and having two amps in one lightweight box is really helpful. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    I've never changed the speakers in any of the models except the JC-120, when I've usually used whatever fairly high-power clean-sounding speaker is available - I haven't deliberately tried to change the voicing.

    Ideally you want to find two of the 'Vintage Black Shadow' 10s that Mesa put in the Subway Rocket amps :).

    I'm not really joking - these have no top-end at all, they're all mid and lower mid, which I find makes them very dark and boxy in the Mesa amps, but they may well be ideal for this. You will need to change both or you'll just hear the top-end from the remaining speaker.

    If not one of those, I would look at one of the many Eminence models - Eminence made these speakers for Mesa, and I find most of the other models on the darker side rather than clear - or Celestion G10 Vintage which have a similar all-mid sound. None of the other models, they're all brighter.

    Or you could try bass speakers - Celestion do a 200W 10" that's really quite dark for a 10, for example.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Eminence lil' Buddy's are supposed to be smooth and have hemp cones, like the C Rex, which sound great taming the top end of Deluxe Reverbs.  Worth a look.
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  • JgarJgar Frets: 1
    edited November 2017
    ICBM said:
    I've never changed the speakers in any of the models except the JC-120, when I've usually used whatever fairly high-power clean-sounding speaker is available - I haven't deliberately tried to change the voicing.

    Ideally you want to find two of the 'Vintage Black Shadow' 10s that Mesa put in the Subway Rocket amps .

    I'm not really joking - these have no top-end at all, they're all mid and lower mid, which I find makes them very dark and boxy in the Mesa amps, but they may well be ideal for this. You will need to change both or you'll just hear the top-end from the remaining speaker.

    If not one of those, I would look at one of the many Eminence models - Eminence made these speakers for Mesa, and I find most of the other models on the darker side rather than clear - or Celestion G10 Vintage which have a similar all-mid sound. None of the other models, they're all brighter.

    Or you could try bass speakers - Celestion do a 200W 10" that's really quite dark for a 10, for example.
    Thanks for the comment! The JC 40 reminds me of my fender Blues Jr in a lot of ways, especially when it had the lightning bolt stock speaker. It had big bottom end and good mid range and spikey highs. Then I put an Eminence allessandro GA SC64 and that tightened the bottom end and lef tthe mids alone and smoothed out the high end. Now I enjoy the amp a lot. Im trying to get the same effect with the jc 40. Any other ideas to do that?

    Forgot to mention that Ill look into those speakers you suggested!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Jgar said:

    Any other ideas to do that?
    Very thick grille cloth? ;)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Apparently some people like their ODs in the loop of the JC series ( you’d need to be careful about level, I think, so just keeping them at unity) and that way you’d have the eq off the pedals straight into the power amp section and you could keep the JC40s eq set for how you like it clean. 

    I’ve read that in a couple of places including reference to it on here by @Heartfeltdawn ;
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • JgarJgar Frets: 1

    Eminence lil' Buddy's are supposed to be smooth and have hemp cones, like the C Rex, which sound great taming the top end of Deluxe Reverbs.  Worth a look.
    Thanks, looking into the lil buddy I only see the 8 ohm version for sale. I asked Roland what the ohm and watt rating was for the jc40. They replied the speakers are 20 WATT 4ohms each. Would putiing a 8 ohm with a 4ohm be okay? Or even two 8ohms? Or should I go with two 4 ohms speakers? 

    Also wondering if Id be hetter off with a 20 to 40 watt speaker for this amp? 

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  • JgarJgar Frets: 1
    Apparently some people like their ODs in the loop of the JC series ( you’d need to be careful about level, I think, so just keeping them at unity) and that way you’d have the eq off the pedals straight into the power amp section and you could keep the JC40s eq set for how you like it clean. 

    I’ve read that in a couple of places including reference to it on here by @Heartfeltdawn ;
    Ill give it a try. I dont like the idea of my reverbs and delay going into the od tho. Or the sound of running my board through the effects loop all together but Ill give it a try.  
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  • I used to have an old JC120 and the previous owner did something similar to 'warm the amp up' . He replaced one speaker with an Eminence Big Cat and I thought it sounded lovely , still crystal clear but not at all shrill.
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  • JgarJgar Frets: 1
    I used to have an old JC120 and the previous owner did something similar to 'warm the amp up' . He replaced one speaker with an Eminence Big Cat and I thought it sounded lovely , still crystal clear but not at all shrill.
    Thanks, I appreciate the input
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Jgar said:

    Thanks, looking into the lil buddy I only see the 8 ohm version for sale. I asked Roland what the ohm and watt rating was for the jc40. They replied the speakers are 20 WATT 4ohms each. Would putiing a 8 ohm with a 4ohm be okay? Or even two 8ohms? Or should I go with two 4 ohms speakers? 

    Also wondering if Id be hetter off with a 20 to 40 watt speaker for this amp? 
    8-ohm speakers would work OK but would reduce the power and volume of the amp - although it may not be noticeable if the new speakers are very efficient. The power rating isn't really important as long as it's more than 20W - while you might get some compression from driving lower-power ones harder, you're probably better just using darker-sounding speakers.

    4-ohm guitar speakers are not common, other than for specialist applications like this - it's usually easier to find bass or PA ones, but even they may not be too common in 10".

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Jgar said:
    Apparently some people like their ODs in the loop of the JC series ( you’d need to be careful about level, I think, so just keeping them at unity) and that way you’d have the eq off the pedals straight into the power amp section and you could keep the JC40s eq set for how you like it clean. 

    I’ve read that in a couple of places including reference to it on here by @Heartfeltdawn ;
    Ill give it a try. I dont like the idea of my reverbs and delay going into the od tho. Or the sound of running my board through the effects loop all together but Ill give it a try.  
    You might not like the idea of it but the actuality of it might prove rather good. 

    For some time, I ran all of my pedals into the Power Amp section of a couple of JC-120 amps. I loved it! Yes I lost the chorus and reverb but it gave me a big sounding non-shrill non-horrible platform for all sorts. I stuck all the overdrive pedals into a Diamond compressor which then fed all the reverb and delay pedals into a stereo pair of JC-120 amps (and of course with two Power Amp inputs I could also run in stereo with just the one amp. I did use splitters running in stereo with two and it was glorious). 

    With regard to speakers, lots of recommendations will come in for stuff like the Cannabis Rex. Personally I don't like high efficiency speakers and most of the Eminence ones are like this. They're a bit in your face for my delicate sensitive bedwetting ears. Have a go with the Jensen MOD 10-70. Not too efficient, will take some cranking up, and the highs are rolled off. The MOD 12-70 is something I had in a speaker cabinet (2x12) and they sounded really good with the JC-120 amps. Denis Cornell has used the MOD in the Romany amps for ages and it's those which got me into these speakers. Never had any time for the reissue alnico Jensens but the Mod series have been under the radar for ages and always worked out for me. They're not too expensive either, about £45 from Hotrox for the 10-70. 





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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Heartfeltdawn said:

    Have a go with the Jensen MOD 10-70. Not too efficient, will take some cranking up, and the highs are rolled off. The MOD 12-70 is something I had in a speaker cabinet (2x12) and they sounded really good with the JC-120 amps.
    I've never tried those in a Roland, but I put a pair in a Yamaha G212 a while ago - it sounded fantastic, pretty much dead-on like a Fender Twin. So much so that someone who was looking for a Twin bought it.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    ICBM said:

    Ideally you want to find two of the 'Vintage Black Shadow' 10s that Mesa put in the Subway Rocket amps :).
    Potential down-side is that Black Shadow speakers weigh a ton. As @Sporky described them "made from collapsed stars".
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Jalapeno said:
    ICBM said:

    Ideally you want to find two of the 'Vintage Black Shadow' 10s that Mesa put in the Subway Rocket amps :).
    Potential down-side is that Black Shadow speakers weigh a ton. As @Sporky described them "made from collapsed stars".
    That's just the EV ones. Mesa have a very annoying policy of calling all their speakers "Black Shadow" - so you have the EVM-12L, Celestion Custom 90 and at least two Eminence models (12" and 10") all called the same thing - although at least the Eminence ones are also called "Vintage".

    The Eminence ones are the lightest, which is one reason why the old Studio .22 model is that rare thing, a Mesa which actually seems light for its size.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • JgarJgar Frets: 1
    edited November 2017
    So I recently took out a pedal from my chain that acted as a buffer. It was the Neunaber Immerae Reverberator. And wow the high end backed off a lot, as well as the low end. So that changed the game. My eq controls on the amp and the tone knob of my guitar are reaponding differently now and Im liking it a lot. My OD pedals are working better at high volumes and the high end is a lot closer to where I like. I only got a little bit of play time yesterday with them and still got to test it with the band so I will post an update when I do. 

    Also I found a few speakers by weber that I may try down the road. They are the 10F150H and the DT10. Both can be built at 4ohm and about 30 to 35 Watt each. Both are also made to smooth out the highs and the dt10 are made to compress nicely. They are kinda pricey tho so Id have to try one at a time or grab them used or on sale. 
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  • JgarJgar Frets: 1
    Ill give it a try. I dont like the idea of my reverbs and delay going into the od tho. Or the sound of running my board through the effects loop all together but Ill give it a try.  
     Have a go with the Jensen MOD 10-70. Not too efficient, will take some cranking up, and the highs are rolled off. The MOD 12-70 is something I had in a speaker cabinet (2x12) and they sounded really good with the JC-120 amps. Denis Cornell has used the MOD in the Romany amps for ages and it's those which got me into these speakers. Never had any time for the reissue alnico Jensens but the Mod series have been under the radar for ages and always worked out for me. They're not too expensive either, about £45 from Hotrox for the 10-70. 


    Wow two JC120s thats awesome. What type of music do you play? 

    I like the price on the Jensen 10-70 but wondering if 2 70WATT 8ohm speakers would be to much for my 40 watt amp. That has 2 20 WATT speakers rated at 4ohms
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Jgar said:

    I like the price on the Jensen 10-70 but wondering if 2 70WATT 8ohm speakers would be to much for my 40 watt amp. That has 2 20 WATT speakers rated at 4ohms
    You could use two 1000W speakers and it would be fine. The amp doesn't 'know' what the maximum power rating of the speaker is, it just sees the impedance.

    Bear in mind that most of the time, you'll be using the amp well below full power - and volume controls are usually logarithmic, so when the control is halfway up, the amp will only be producing a tenth of its power (roughly - it's not usually quite that simple, but it will do for illustration!). If it sounds fine driving a 20W speaker with 2 watts, it will sound fine driving a 70W speaker with 7 watts… and the amp still won't be full up.

    This is a common misconception among guitarists, that you need to 'push' the speakers. It is true that speakers go into thermal compression when they get near their power rating (usually above about 2/3 of the rating), but if anything that may be part of what you *don't* like about the high-volume sound. Actual overdriven speakers usually sound horrible, not what most people think they sound like at all.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • @ICBM The Mod speakers have worked for me with a variety of amps. Not too expensive either. Never tried it with a Yamaha solid state amp though, I can imagine they'd be pretty awesome going by what my old Yammies were like. 

    @Jgar noisy space rock back then! I had a variety of stuff: two JC-120s going at battle, later on a triple amp setup with a Matamp in the middle for overdrive and then two Bandits either side for clean delays... oh, and two enormous stereo pedalboards to switch about. Sigh. Back in the mental gear days...

    Definitely get rid of buffers! Loads of solid state amps sound better if you do the opposite to convention. And don't worry about using 80 watt speakers. As ICBM says, speaker breakup is mostly shit. Rely on pedals for that. 




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  • JgarJgar Frets: 1
    So a quick update. After removing the buffers I got a lot more control of the treble but at high band volumes the treble still "ice picks" the ears...
     I found a used Weber 10f150 25 Watt 4 ohm online for a good price and pulled the trigger. Wow am I happy with it. It is louder than the stock speaker and also fills the room a lot better and smooths out the high end a good amount. Ive decided to order the Weber 10F150H for the other side as I think it will do the trick on smoothing out the high end especially for higher volumes. The 10F150 takes pedals really nicely. I can hear more details from the my guitar and pedals though the speaker. The Weber speaker is heavier and the magnet is much bigger than the stock but sounds a lot fuller and clear. 
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  • JgarJgar Frets: 1
    So I have both speakers now and after swapping my humbucker and adjusting the p90 on my G&L, I have a really awesome clean and drive sound on my JC40! I found the p90 in the neck comes out great with and without OD. The Humbucker on the bridge was a big cause of the ice picky highs. Also my guitar is a very bright sounding guitar and has a lot of sustain. So it was a handful of factors that played into the out of control high end at hufh volumes. I also switched out some overdrive pedals. I got some that cut the high end and tighten the lows and push the mids. The humbucker I have now is a little customized in that I tested different alnico magnet. Its been fun and I learned several things I didnt know before about my guitar. Also want to say a compressor pedal helped a lot. I have it set to where the attack isnt as aggressive so it doesnt sound overly punchy. 
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