Are tube amps fit for purpose?

Richardj

It is surprising me how fragile tube amps are and that the manufacturers are deceiving us by saying that you can gig with them. Is it true (as I seem to hear quite a lot) that a modern tube amp isn't capable of being transported anywhere? I wonder how they leave the factories and even manage to be delivered to the stores or even once purchased make it from the store to their final destination. Surely they are capable of being transported in the boot of a car or a van if adequately protected. There is just a hint of irony in this mini rant of course. They do represent a substantial investment and need looking after, I just cannot believe that they are not made well enough to be transported anywhere. A pointless purchase if there is a good chance that if you move it won't work. All of mine have been in cars and vans (sensibly protected) here in France where the roads are generally apalling and haven't missed a beat. OK, got it off my chest!

Richardj

Sorry, formatting doesn't seem to work from my iPad.

not_the_dj

Richardj said:

Sorry, formatting doesn't seem to work from my iPad.

Hi the "show source" icon (looks like a page with a red <> on it).

ICBM

There's nothing wrong with most valve amps from a roadworthiness point of view. If anything they can be more robust than some modern solid-state amps simply because many valve amps are aimed at a higher quality point and are better-built. Valves are always going to be slightly more fragile than some other parts of the technology, but if you don't bump them when they're hot they aren't really at risk.

The problem with amps being damaged in transit is due to courier companies and airline cargo handlers and the lack of care they take. Unfortunately valve amps are often heavy and contain heavy components, and it's difficult to stop them doing damage to themselves from their own inertia when dropped heavily. Even speakers can be damaged by a heavy drop though, so it's not just valve amps.

Cirrus

In around 300 gigs using valve amps, I've had one failure at a gig. My gigging amp moves between practice room, home and gig venues regularly and as ICBM says the only issue is I try not to move the amp (or at least subject it to knocks/bumps) while it's hot. I do change power valves regularly (every 6 months or so unless they start sounding flat sooner) and use an nos gz34 which is a good investment compared to current production purely from a reliability standpoint.

martinw

Richardj said:

  Is it true (as I seem to hear quite a lot) that a modern tube amp isn't capable of being transported anywhere?

No.

Where have you heard that?

(It's 'valve amp' by the way   I'll forgive you if you are American)

Danny1969

We've using Marshall EL34 100\100, Fender Twin and Ampeg SVT in one band, all valve amps and not a failure in 5 years. All the amps are flightcased though (You have to feel the weight of an SVT Classic in a flightcase and matching flighcased 8 X 10 cab, the dams things so heavy it creates it's own gravity )

Another band I'm with use Hotrod Deluxe's .... these have failed but it was bad resistor joints on PCB rather than anything valve related

Another band I'm in is Blackstar HT5, no failure there despite running it on full pelt at some gigs, bass players SS Ashdown amp went down with a failed pot and so did his Trace Elliot with bad effects loop sockets

I've done over 2000 gigs in my life and can't remember  swapped over bad valves more than 2 or 3 times

Richardj

martinw said:

Richardj said:

  Is it true (as I seem to hear quite a lot) that a modern tube amp isn't capable of being transported anywhere?

No.

Where have you hear that?

OK, maybe the underlying point might be people who aren't prepared to ship an amp, I did say it was a bit of a rant!

(It's 'valve amp' by the way   I'll forgive you if you are American)

I'll take that one on the chin, I'm used to talking amps etc with friends in the US and they think valves are only used in plumbing. they call them lamps here in France.

martinw

Now lamps I like!

Richardj

So..... How do our respected amp manufacturers here actually get their wares to the end customer?  Just askin'.

martinw

Bubblewrap (lots), careful packing and a cardboard box. I work on the assumption it will be dropped!

Never had any problems, including overseas shipping. I had one amp damaged when returned to me for an upgrade, but with woeful packing.

They're not that fragile.

Catthan

My only reliability concern stems from el84 amps where the valves grip less firmly in their sockets compared to larger valves (el34s, 6l6s etc). Well, not less firmly but they are more prone to dislocation.

Not sure if them hanging from the chasis in mine has smth to do with it but I do check they re in properly after moving the amp and I always find they have moved a tiny bit.

But maybe all I need is some new retainers.

From my limited experience valve amp failure might be more severe if the amp is on than, say, taking a dive when it's off. For istance, if a power tube fails it may take a grid resistor with it and things like that. 

But I could be wrong about this.

 I would assume though that's the case in SS amps; a failing component damaging another related component

p90fool

I've had a plugged-in 50w Superlead miss my head by inches, smash through a closed window and bounce twice in a flowerbed two floors below after being launched at me be the irate girlfriend of a mate of mine.
After one EL34 was replaced it worked perfectly, and we gigged it for years after.

Fragile, my arse.

jpfamps

 I would assume though that's the case in SS amps; a failing component damaging another related component

Indeed.

Power amp failure in solid state amps often causes considerable colateral damage.

Furthermore, SS amps are invariably more complex (often much more complex) than valve power amps, so repair can be a time consuming (ie expensive) process.

Catthan

p90fool said:

I've had a plugged-in 50w Superlead miss my head by inches, smash through a closed window and bounce twice in a flowerbed two floors below after being launched at me be the irate girlfriend of a mate of mine.
After one EL34 was replaced it worked perfectly, and we gigged it for years after.

Fragile, my arse.

If my lass could through a SL out the window I'd be afraid of my "structural integrity" not my amps'.

Guess by the time it hit the ground it wasn't plugged in anymore,,

meltedbuzzbox

p90fool said:

I've had a plugged-in 50w Superlead miss my head by inches, smash through a closed window and bounce twice in a flowerbed two floors below after being launched at me be the irate girlfriend of a mate of mine.
After one EL34 was replaced it worked perfectly, and we gigged it for years after.

Fragile, my arse.

I hope you gave her a good hiding too

Fez

Only had a couple of solid state amps and had problems with them. Sure you get some problems with valve amps but generally the MTBF is acceptable.

johnnyurq

p90fool said:

I've had a plugged-in 50w Superlead miss my head by inches, smash through a closed window and bounce twice in a flowerbed two floors below after being launched at me be the irate girlfriend of a mate of mine.
After one EL34 was replaced it worked perfectly, and we gigged it for years after.

Fragile, my arse.

I hope she atoned by following it.

That is one psycho GF.

Over the years I have had more SS amps fail on me, apart from valves going dodgy that is. 

In the early days I knew jack about valve amps and as a result was unknowingly unkind and harsh on them.

Adam_MD

My mesa transatlantic has flown from heathrow to lax and back again 6 times now. I've taken it as hand luggage in its carry case and I've never had a problem. There's even room for an iPod and a book.

I should point out it's the head and not combo version. I use a friends spare cab out there.

p90fool

meltedbuzzbox;178420" said:

p90fool said:

I've had a plugged-in 50w Superlead miss my head by inches, smash through a closed window and bounce twice in a flowerbed two floors below after being launched at me be the irate girlfriend of a mate of mine.

After one EL34 was replaced it worked perfectly, and we gigged it for years after.



Fragile, my arse.





I hope you gave her a good hiding too

To be fair to her we were a terrible band, very loud, and we'd been smoking weed and playing all night (this was 30 years ago). I was horrified, but the amp's owner was crying with laughter on the floor.
Good times (I think)

hywelg

martinw said:

Where have you heard that?

On t'interweb no doubt. If you listen hard enough you can hear dolphins playing backgammon.