Grateful for opinions/advice re this strat wiring scheme

Megii

I'm thinking to use this alternative wiring scheme (with some additional modification to utilize the tapped coil pickups I have) for my current walnut strat build project. It seems quite elegant to me - I like that it has a single master tone, and then uses the third pot as a blend to give the extra pickup combinations of neck+bridge and neck+middle+bridge. Just occurs to me there might be some kind of downside though - maybe related to pickup loading or something? Would be very grateful if any of the guitar electronics boffins on here could give their opinion, cheers!

koneguitarist

Do away with the treble bleed cap and resistor on volume pot, and it will be fine.

Megii

koneguitarist said:

Do away with the treble bleed cap and resistor on volume pot, and it will be fine.

Many thanks for the reply - I do like to use a treble bleed circuit on my other guitars generally... Can I ask is your objection because of something specific to do with how this particular circuit would operate, or more of a general dislike of treble bleeds?

imalone

Odd they don't have a value on that blend pot. If it's low then the bridge and neck will never separate properly (pickups in parallel load each other, not the same as just having a resistor of the same value in series as it generates voltage, so I suspect it acts as a voltage divider on the blended components), high and there's very little range in which it will give different sounds. Maybe a good candidate for a log pot, so maybe another 250kA would do.

Megii

imalone said:

Odd they don't have a value on that blend pot. If it's low then the bridge and neck will never separate properly (pickups in parallel load each other, not the same as just having a resistor of the same value in series as it generates voltage, so I suspect it acts as a voltage divider on the blended components), high and there's very little range in which it will give different sounds. Maybe a good candidate for a log pot, so maybe another 250kA would do.

Yeah - I noticed that lack of a value as well, and with you on using a log pot. Actually, I have three 500K log pots ready to go - I seem to like 500K, even with single coils, and the pickups I've got also are quite hot in full coil mode. Plus would cut down on the loading a bit I guess... Appreciate your thoughts re pickups in parallel and how that would likely work with the blender pot - puts a slant on things I had not considered.

ICBM

It will work fine, but I suspect you will only find the sounds with the blend either fully on or fully off useful. There won't be much usable range unless the pot value is so low as to make the blend on to some extent all the time, even if you use a Log pot.

Megii

ICBM said:

It will work fine, but I suspect you will only find the sounds with the blend either fully on or fully off useful. There won't be much usable range unless the pot value is so low as to make the blend on to some extent all the time, even if you use a Log pot.

Thank you - I'll definitely give it a go then. So I guess you would recommend a pretty low pot value then? I was wondering also if I should mod the pot so it goes to infinite resistance when turned fully one way, can I ask what do you think about that idea? All that said, if the blend pot is a bit on-off in nature, that will still not be a bad thing.

ICBM

Megii said:

ICBM said:

It will work fine, but I suspect you will only find the sounds with the blend either fully on or fully off useful. There won't be much usable range unless the pot value is so low as to make the blend on to some extent all the time, even if you use a Log pot.

Thank you - I'll definitely give it a go then. So I guess you would recommend a pretty low pot value then? I was wondering also if I should mod the pot so it goes to infinite resistance when turned fully one way, can I ask what do you think about that idea? All that said, if the blend pot is a bit on-off in nature, that will still not be a bad thing.

No, I would just use what you have - 500K (or even 250K) is easily high enough that the blend will be off to all intents and purposes. It will just effectively be a switch which looks like a pot and which doesn't involve drilling holes. The range of 'blended' sounds is not very useful anyway in my opinion.

Megii

ICBM said:

Megii said:

ICBM said:

It will work fine, but I suspect you will only find the sounds with the blend either fully on or fully off useful. There won't be much usable range unless the pot value is so low as to make the blend on to some extent all the time, even if you use a Log pot.

Thank you - I'll definitely give it a go then. So I guess you would recommend a pretty low pot value then? I was wondering also if I should mod the pot so it goes to infinite resistance when turned fully one way, can I ask what do you think about that idea? All that said, if the blend pot is a bit on-off in nature, that will still not be a bad thing.

No, I would just use what you have - 500K (or even 250K) is easily high enough that the blend will be off to all intents and purposes. It will just effectively be a switch which looks like a pot and which doesn't involve drilling holes. The range of 'blended' sounds is not very useful anyway in my opinion.

Great - I will do as you say - I'm not too concerned with the blending aspect myself, but this scheme does allow me to have my straight forward master volume and tone controls, and at least provides some useful function from the third pot. Cheers again for the advice!

exocet

I use this configuration (without the treble bleed) but with 3 standard Strat Pickups. The Blend pot is one of those "no load" pots that has a break at one end of the pots travel to take it out of circuit. I find it to be a very useful setup. The Blend pot allows you to dial in the amount of "quack" in positions 2 and 4 in addition to mixing neck and bridge pickups, giving you Telecaster type tones.

Megii

exocet said:

I use this configuration (without the treble bleed) but with 3 standard Strat Pickups. The Blend pot is one of those "no load" pots that has a break at one end of the pots travel to take it out of circuit. I find it to be a very useful setup. The Blend pot allows you to dial in the amount of "quack" in positions 2 and 4 in addition to mixing neck and bridge pickups, giving you Telecaster type tones.

Cheers for that, you make the circuit seem very appealing. I guess with a "no load" type of pot that will just go to infinite resistance at one end of the turn to take the blend totally out of the circuit. The pickups I have are basically like normal strat types -  they are wound hot, but also with a tap at a lower number of winds, for a more classic strat tone. So with any luck, I would be able to dial in the "quack" as you describe. The guitar is alredy going to have a row of 3 very small toggle switches for the pickup taps, but I really did not want to add any more switches than that, so I like this circuit as a way of getting the neck+bridge and neck+middle+bridge pickup combinations.

ICBM

Megii said:

Cheers for that, you make the circuit seem very appealing. I guess with a "no load" type of pot that will just go to infinite resistance at one end of the turn to take the blend totally out of the circuit. The pickups I have are basically like normal strat types -  they are wound hot, but also with a tap at a lower number of winds, for a more classic strat tone. So with any luck, I would be able to dial in the "quack" as you describe. The guitar is alredy going to have a row of 3 very small toggle switches for the pickup taps, but I really did not want to add any more switches than that, so I like this circuit as a way of getting the neck+bridge and neck+middle+bridge pickup combinations.

Here's an alternative - use the third control to blend between the full and tapped pickups. You don't need three switches, you can do it with just one if you have a master tone control. Don't drill the pickguard yet!

Use one side of the pickup selector for the tapped connections, and the other side for the full pickups (this side goes directly to the volume pot), then use the third control to blend the two together which gives you the tapped sound when the control is fully down.

If you want both functions, replace the pot with a push-pull which will allow you do do both things without drilling any holes.

Megii

ICBM said:

Megii said:

Cheers for that, you make the circuit seem very appealing. I guess with a "no load" type of pot that will just go to infinite resistance at one end of the turn to take the blend totally out of the circuit. The pickups I have are basically like normal strat types -  they are wound hot, but also with a tap at a lower number of winds, for a more classic strat tone. So with any luck, I would be able to dial in the "quack" as you describe. The guitar is alredy going to have a row of 3 very small toggle switches for the pickup taps, but I really did not want to add any more switches than that, so I like this circuit as a way of getting the neck+bridge and neck+middle+bridge pickup combinations.

Here's an alternative - use the third control to blend between the full and tapped pickups. You don't need three switches, you can do it with just one if you have a master tone control. Don't drill the pickguard yet!

Use one side of the pickup selector for the tapped connections, and the other side for the full pickups (this side goes directly to the volume pot), then use the third control to blend the two together which gives you the tapped sound when the control is fully down.

If you want both functions, replace the pot with a push-pull which will allow you do do both things without drilling any holes.

Thanks for that ICBM!  I'm giving it serious consideration  - it's not a bad idea at all I have to admit, and sounds to be an effective use of a blend control for the third pot. I was/am quite keen on the idea of having independent control of the tap for each pickup, but maybe I can live without that.  I don't tend to like push-pulls on strats, for some reason, and generally go with some sort of mini toggle switch if required. But hmm :-?   - actually, I do like the idea of being able to blend from the tapped pickups to the full coils....    I don't suppose (my electronics/visualisation skills being limited) you could point me to a suitable wiring diagram, or something close? (cheeky grin)  

Megii

This thread has taken an unexpected turn, but I think I am persuaded by your idea ICBM - I have gone to the trouble of having these tapped pickups made, and what you suggest would allow me to use them to the full i.e. not just a case of "vintage strat" which can be switched to a hot overwound pickup sound, but the full spectrum of tones in-between. I can do without having individual control of the tap for each pickup. I would ideally like to still have some kind of "neck-on" or "bridge-on" switch, so that I can get the N+B and N+M+B pickup combinations - I think that is what you mean by using a push-pull to get both functions? Anyhow, like the idea a lot, and am going to start working out a wiring diagram and hopefully make this happen. But still any help with a link to a ready-done wiring scheme would be appreciated if possible (no worries if not). And what type/resistance would you suggest for the blend pot now?

I know people hate it when one announces the fact, but have a wisdom and a wow for your excellent idea - I would never have thought of that on my own, and I really think it is going to make an appreciable improvement to the end result of my parts-caster build, so I'm very grateful.

Megii

I think I have figured out a wiring diagram, may post it here just so you can run your eye over it ICBM.

ICBM

I don't have a diagram, but it's very simple.

First, wire it up exactly like a Strat with a master tone control, using the full pickup connections.

Then connect the taps to the other side of the switch as if that was also a pickup selector, and finally connect the blend pot between the two sides of the switch.

You could actually be very clever and use the pot - not push-pull - for both functions at opposite ends of the rotation, but you would only be able to get the extra pickup combinations on either the full or tapped sound, not both. If that sounds interesting I will explain how .

Megii

ICBM said:

I don't have a diagram, but it's very simple.

First, wire it up exactly like a Strat with a master tone control, using the full pickup connections.

Then connect the taps to the other side of the switch as if that was also a pickup selector, and finally connect the blend pot between the two sides of the switch.

You could actually be very clever and use the pot - not push-pull - for both functions at opposite ends of the rotation, but you would only be able to get the extra pickup combinations on either the full or tapped sound, not both. If that sounds interesting I will explain how .

It does sound interesting, but tbh only in the sense that I would be interested to know how it would work - not something I'd likely use really. But no matter - thank you for your last post, and reading that, I am pretty confident that I've got a wiring diagram that amounts to what you have described, and with an additional push-pull that keeps the neck pickup selected regardless of the 5-way setting, for those extra pickup combos. I'll get it scanned and posted up here, and let you give it a check, if you'd be so kind.

Megii

OK - this is my new wiring scheme, I hope - assuming I've got things right. There will be one mini toggle switch in the end, as a "neck-on" switch - partly because I won't have to buy a new push-pull pot and already have a suitable mini toggle handy, and partly because it just adds a slightly different look to the guitar - I just like my projects to look a little non-stock somehow. But that's not important really, and here is my proposed wiring if you'd be kind enough to have a quick peruse ICBM...

Still not sure what value of pot to use, but I guess I'll try a 500K log to start with, and see how it goes.

imalone

I think lines have got crossed over on your drawing for the tap-side of the toggle: both wires from the switch are heading to the neck-tap lug. I think a smaller linear pot might do that blend better, but since you've got the 500k may as well try it, if nothing else it'll let you work out how whether you need a smaller range.

Megii

imalone said:

I think lines have got crossed over on your drawing for the tap-side of the toggle: both wires from the switch are heading to the neck-tap lug. I think a smaller linear pot might do that blend better, but since you've got the 500k may as well try it, if nothing else it'll let you work out how whether you need a smaller range.

You're right - well done for spotting my deliberate mistake...    And cheers for pointing that out. Maybe I'll get a smaller value linear pot in as well, since they don't cost too much. Appreciate the help.  

EDIT: OK, just modified the diagram, so hopefully is correct now... 

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ICBM

Yes, that all looks right!