I went to a Bluegrass jam...

What's Hot
TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
... last night. Only one for miles around but luckily not too far away (just across town). Only went to watch and took my tame bassist friend along for moral support.

It's the first time I've been to anything like this - it was *such* a cool vibe - was about 7 of them there on this occasion, all bar 2 of them had multiple instruments they dabbled with (guitar/fiddle, banjo/harmonica, banjo/fiddle etc) and - a couple were clearly *very* fine players indeed, the others all very good too though, and one old boy who could sing harmony to anything.

I chatted with a couple of them and they seem very welcoming so I may take an instrument along soon and just sit mostly quietly and join in where I can.

some observations:

1. The guitars are the poor cousin - sometimes barely audible if the others didn't back off enough. What is the loudest guitar on the market... ? :-) 
2. Fiddles are fucking loud in comparison. 
3. There is no PA and amp lugging in this genre!

They were particularly interested if I could play Mando as they don't have one. 
I own a Mando but can't play it properly but this has given me the incentive.

Anyone else do Bluegrass now or in the past? (I know @Lewy has certainly... ) 
Red ones are better. 
0reaction image LOL 2reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
«1

Comments

  • I attempt it from time to time, but I need to learn some more tunes, I've never attended anything like above, because quite frankly I don't have the chops or a sound enough knowledge of the music. I suppose they are similar to a traditional session.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15475
    went to one a few times when I lived in herts, and once since being down here (which has now ceased). The one in herts consisted of mostly banjos and guitars, no mandos and I think a fiddle, but it was quite large. Guitars were rhythm only, which is also pretty much what is expected of them at folk sessions IME (and at least at bluegrass sessions you're only competing with fiddles and banjos, try competing with about 6 squeezeboxes, those things are loud!!!).

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TimmyO said:
    ... last night. Only one for miles around but luckily not too far away (just across town). Only went to watch and took my tame bassist friend along for moral support.

    It's the first time I've been to anything like this - it was *such* a cool vibe - was about 7 of them there on this occasion, all bar 2 of them had multiple instruments they dabbled with (guitar/fiddle, banjo/harmonica, banjo/fiddle etc) and - a couple were clearly *very* fine players indeed, the others all very good too though, and one old boy who could sing harmony to anything.

    I chatted with a couple of them and they seem very welcoming so I may take an instrument along soon and just sit mostly quietly and join in where I can.

    some observations:

    1. The guitars are the poor cousin - sometimes barely audible if the others didn't back off enough. What is the loudest guitar on the market... ? :-) 
    2. Fiddles are fucking loud in comparison. 
    3. There is no PA and amp lugging in this genre!

    They were particularly interested if I could play Mando as they don't have one. 
    I own a Mando but can't play it properly but this has given me the incentive.

    Anyone else do Bluegrass now or in the past? (I know @Lewy has certainly... ) 
    There's a reason bluegrass players almost all use dreadnoughts... 
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    TimmyO said:
    ... last night. Only one for miles around but luckily not too far away (just across town). Only went to watch and took my tame bassist friend along for moral support.

    It's the first time I've been to anything like this - it was *such* a cool vibe - was about 7 of them there on this occasion, all bar 2 of them had multiple instruments they dabbled with (guitar/fiddle, banjo/harmonica, banjo/fiddle etc) and - a couple were clearly *very* fine players indeed, the others all very good too though, and one old boy who could sing harmony to anything.

    I chatted with a couple of them and they seem very welcoming so I may take an instrument along soon and just sit mostly quietly and join in where I can.

    some observations:

    1. The guitars are the poor cousin - sometimes barely audible if the others didn't back off enough. What is the loudest guitar on the market... ? :-) 
    2. Fiddles are fucking loud in comparison. 
    3. There is no PA and amp lugging in this genre!

    They were particularly interested if I could play Mando as they don't have one. 
    I own a Mando but can't play it properly but this has given me the incentive.

    Anyone else do Bluegrass now or in the past? (I know @Lewy has certainly... ) 
    There's a reason bluegrass players almost all use dreadnoughts... 

    Not all dreadnoughts are equal though.

    The Tuner app on my phone gives a dB value.  I put it across the room, and my Martin was 3 or 4db louder (approximately double perceived volume) than another dread I used to have.  Didn't sound louder to me when playing but it must project a lot better.

    If you don't want to monstrously heavy strings then you probably want something with the pre-war style ("forward shifted") scalloped bracing as the tops are a lot more responsive.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • KilgoreKilgore Frets: 8599
    I was under the impression that a D28 was "the" Bluegrass guitar.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    If you do try Mando, you'll have the same projection and volume issue unless you've got a loud one of these:


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
    If you do try Mando, you'll have the same projection and volume issue unless you've got a loud one of these:


    Googles
    Faints at price lol 
    Red ones are better. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24578
    TimmyO said:
    If you do try Mando, you'll have the same projection and volume issue unless you've got a loud one of these:


    Googles
    Faints at price lol 
    Paul Shippey made it for me in 2008 - even then it was flipping expensive - I hate to think what they are now!!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Bluegrass is very prominent here in Canada, and Martin is the guitar of choice(don't know model names etc.).  At the moment bluegrass is enjoying a bit of a resurgence in popularity, particularly the banjo.  It's reached a point where I've been convinced by the music school I teach guitar at to learn banjo because we're getting more calls for banjo lessons all the time and currently don't have a banjo teacher.  I don't own one but I live very close to the school, which is also a music store and the manager is letting me come in when there's a room open(most mornings) and use a stock banjo and instruction book.  I'm working on the 5 string banjo and it's going pretty good.  For practicing at home I have taken one of my solid body electrics and removed the top string, replaced the A string with an unwound G string and retuned the bottom E string to D.  Instant 5 string banjo!  At first I thought the top string would be a problem because on 5 string banjos it starts at the 5th fret, but, after browsing two instruction books I discovered that it only gets played as an open string(at least so far).  The hardest part for me is getting my right hand fingerpicking patterns straight.  I have a huge background in classical and flamenco guitar and the fingerpicking patterns for banjo are totally alien to me.    

    “Theory is something that is written down after the music has been made so we can explain it to others”– Levi Clay


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11411
    The hardest part for me is getting my right hand fingerpicking patterns straight.  I have a huge background in classical and flamenco guitar and the fingerpicking patterns for banjo are totally alien to me.    
    My wife bought me a banjo for my birthday a couple of years ago.  I was watching Mumford and Sons on TV and their banjo player just used a plectrum guitar style.  I think that might be easier.  Probably not so good if you are teaching though, as they will want you to teach "proper" technique.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15475
    think the chap in mumford plays a banjitar (banjo body but guitar neck and tuning) or mebbe a tenor banjo, which is basically a banjo body and tenor guitar neck and tuning.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • crunchman said:
    The hardest part for me is getting my right hand fingerpicking patterns straight.  I have a huge background in classical and flamenco guitar and the fingerpicking patterns for banjo are totally alien to me.    
    My wife bought me a banjo for my birthday a couple of years ago.  I was watching Mumford and Sons on TV and their banjo player just used a plectrum guitar style.  I think that might be easier.  Probably not so good if you are teaching though, as they will want you to teach "proper" technique.
    Yeah, I don't think I could get the speed required  with a pick, all of the books I've seen say to use thumb, index and middle.  What's throwing me off is with guitar the thumb almost always starts a picking pattern, but with banjo it's the index finger, followed by middle, then the thumb.   On top of that an 1/8 note pattern in 4/4 ends on the middle finger and the next bar starts over with the index.  I'm getting it but I have spent a lot of time playing simple passages over and over again with  a metronome.  And that's not the only pattern...... 

    “Theory is something that is written down after the music has been made so we can explain it to others”– Levi Clay


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Tenor Banjo is a 4 string shorter scale tuned CGDA or GDAE with heavier strings and is used in Irish Trad music a lot. They are loud like all banjos but whether you like the sound is another matter, I'd personally rather have a D28 all day long.




    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • LewyLewy Frets: 4123
    edited November 2017
    crunchman said:

    If you don't want to monstrously heavy strings then you probably want something with the pre-war style ("forward shifted") scalloped bracing as the tops are a lot more responsive.
    Everybody from 7 year olds to arthritic 80 year olds use 13-56 for bluegrass for the acoustic volume. They’re not monstrously heavy for the style because it’s 90% open position based.

    ps. @crunchman - which tuner app has a dB meter? Would love to find out the relative loudness of my guitars as they vary a lot from the “driving seat”.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Jimbro66Jimbro66 Frets: 2418
    TimmyO said:

    1. The guitars are the poor cousin - sometimes barely audible if the others didn't back off enough. What is the loudest guitar on the market... ? :-) 
    You need one of these :D

    http://atkinguitars.com/guitar/the-white-rice-relic/

    D18s are often used because the mahogany construction lets them cut through a bit more than a rosewood D28.

    I played dobro in a bluegrass band for 4 or 5 years and have played at hundreds of bluegrass jams. Banjo, fiddle and dobro are all louder than guitar and a mandolin cuts through well because of its higher frequencies. Guitar players can really struggle to be heard. At jams it needs the other instruments to back off when the guitar takes a solo. Unfortunately not all players are that considerate. Bluegrass guitarists also have to learn to dig in hard. I’ve been amazed at the volume really good players get from their guitars.

    In a band context it’s not so much a problem because the traditional single-mic method allows players to move closer for their solo then back away.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • wrinkleygitwrinkleygit Frets: 255
    edited November 2017
    I have a pre Gibson dobro spidercone metal body, played with a pick in std tuning cuts thro easily in acoustic jams I think the dobro was origionaly designed to allow guitarists to be heard in "big band" gigs
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Jimbro66 said:
    TimmyO said:

    1. The guitars are the poor cousin - sometimes barely audible if the others didn't back off enough. What is the loudest guitar on the market... ? :-) 
    You need one of these :D

    http://atkinguitars.com/guitar/the-white-rice-relic/



    I wonder about these guitars with enlarged sound holes. The Yamaha LL series have larger sound holes and I've noticed if you hit the strings hard then they begin exhibit harsh metallic overtones. So you might get power but not necessarily a good tone. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7349
    Jimbro66 said:
    TimmyO said:

    1. The guitars are the poor cousin - sometimes barely audible if the others didn't back off enough. What is the loudest guitar on the market... ? :-) 
    You need one of these :D

    http://atkinguitars.com/guitar/the-white-rice-relic/



    I wonder about these guitars with enlarged sound holes. The Yamaha LL series have larger sound holes and I've noticed if you hit the strings hard then they begin exhibit harsh metallic overtones. So you might get power but not necessarily a good tone. 
    That's really interesting - it was the one criticism I had of my LL16 - played softly it was fantastic, the string spacing and playability were fantastic, but if you hit those plain strings hard with a plectrum there was something odd about the sound that made me wince a bit - it wasn't the sort of thing that was apparent in softer playing, or indeed all of the time, but once I heard it I couldn't un-hear it. 

    That said, we're on speculating here that the soundhole size is the factor. I doubt Atkin would get away with it... 
    Red ones are better. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15475
    Greg Russel (of Greg Russel and CIaran ALgar fame, sure you've all heard of them) plays an atkin with an enlarged hole (oo er missus) and he often really belts it. Not noticed any harshness or unusual tone. If funds ever allow, I'd love an Atkin.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TimmyO said:
    Jimbro66 said:
    TimmyO said:

    1. The guitars are the poor cousin - sometimes barely audible if the others didn't back off enough. What is the loudest guitar on the market... ? :-) 
    You need one of these :D

    http://atkinguitars.com/guitar/the-white-rice-relic/



    I wonder about these guitars with enlarged sound holes. The Yamaha LL series have larger sound holes and I've noticed if you hit the strings hard then they begin exhibit harsh metallic overtones. So you might get power but not necessarily a good tone. 
    That's really interesting - it was the one criticism I had of my LL16 - played softly it was fantastic, the string spacing and playability were fantastic, but if you hit those plain strings hard with a plectrum there was something odd about the sound that made me wince a bit - it wasn't the sort of thing that was apparent in softer playing, or indeed all of the time, but once I heard it I couldn't un-hear it. 

    That said, we're on speculating here that the soundhole size is the factor. I doubt Atkin would get away with it... 
    True, there could other factors, but it would certainly be the first thing I'd look for if trying an Atkin or Martin with a bigger sound hole. Truth is a lot of the suggestions as louder replacements for guitars, such as banjos and dobros, they too have harsh metallic sounds particularly when played pick style.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.