Young player having fun

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  • JerkMoansJerkMoans Frets: 1328
    As a relative newcomer to the Fretboard, this thread appears snakeshit crazy insane.  OP posts pretty cool vids of extremely talented kid letting rip with brio, forum seems to lose its collective shit and turn into Fight Club.    Or is this just standard operating conditions?!
    Self-confessed Blues Lawyer
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1759
    pia98jf said:
    randella said:
    tampaxboo said:
    so i can't help watching these sort of things feeling superficially positive, a kid enjoying their interest is a good thing, but with a little pilot light of dread burning in the back of my mind thinking 'is this kid going to end up another failed-to-fulfil-potential crackhead childstar at nineteen?'
    Tell you what, let's stop wasting time and just send in Social Services now.

    Those parents are 100% guaranteed to be up to something, with a spot of luck they'll both be left-handed so we can have them burned as witches and have done with it.
    This is an example of why you can’t have a debate around here. Why don’t you take the post as a whole and the general sentiment rather than taking one part in isolation and out of context and then immediately taking the arguing to extremes?
    You are Ro_s and ICM £5
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  • KalimnaKalimna Frets: 419
    P90fool - just checking, the mis-sold PPI *was* a reference to Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil, wasnt it?

    Adam.
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  • JerkMoansJerkMoans Frets: 1328
    Kalimna said:
    P90fool - just checking, the mis-sold PPI *was* a reference to Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil, wasnt it?

    Adam.
    Reckon that's why Iggy Pop started advertising motor insurance?
    Self-confessed Blues Lawyer
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6036
    JerkMoans said:
    As a relative newcomer to the Fretboard, this thread appears snakeshit crazy insane.  OP posts pretty cool vids of extremely talented kid letting rip with brio, forum seems to lose its collective shit and turn into Fight Club.    Or is this just standard operating conditions?!
    nope, pretty standard really. In fact, it's been pretty low key.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • JerkMoansJerkMoans Frets: 1328
    VimFuego said:
    JerkMoans said:
    As a relative newcomer to the Fretboard, this thread appears snakeshit crazy insane.  OP posts pretty cool vids of extremely talented kid letting rip with brio, forum seems to lose its collective shit and turn into Fight Club.    Or is this just standard operating conditions?!
    nope, pretty standard really. In fact, it's been pretty low key.
    Well, it certainly seems a rather lively environment. :D
    Self-confessed Blues Lawyer
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  • dindudedindude Frets: 5249
    The kid in question probably has way more maturity that the grown ups squabbling in this thread.

    Seriously, pull yourselves together. 

    Oh, and tidy up your room too.
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  • BucketBucket Frets: 7600
    pia98jf said:
    Cant leave it can you? Did I at any point claim that I was a better judge of intrinsic artistic value? No, all I argued was that there can be a judge of this, i.e. that it’s not the case that it’s all just subjective. So well done to you for twisting my words to suit your agenda.
    Yes, but that is bullshit.

    The only thing you are qualified to judge music by is your own personal taste. Even the most knowledgeable musicologist with a first-class doctorate is no more qualified to make value judgements on music - it is all personal taste.

    You were saying something along the lines of "it's people like you who think they're qualified to say stuff like this that mean the human race is doomed" - so trust me, those words didn't take a hell of a lot of twisting to fit my "agenda". You can try and back-pedal, but that is what you said. You're the one making utterly ridiculous, astonishingly arrogant statements like that, with an apparent total lack of self-awareness, not me.

    How is the entire human race "doomed" just because the total subjectivity of music is being upheld, and people aren't particularly keen to overturn it just because you think Beethoven is objectively better than Taylor Swift? Is it because people are refusing to come round to your demonstrably ridiculous point of view?
    - "I'm going to write a very stiff letter. A VERY stiff letter. On cardboard."
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6036
    now, I'm no fan of Taylor Swift (tho some of the chord progessions and pretty cool) but I'm fairly sure she's not to blame for the trump.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • tampaxbootampaxboo Frets: 486
    edited December 2017
    randella said:
    tampaxboo said:
    so i can't help watching these sort of things feeling superficially positive, a kid enjoying their interest is a good thing, but with a little pilot light of dread burning in the back of my mind thinking 'is this kid going to end up another failed-to-fulfil-potential crackhead childstar at nineteen?'
    Tell you what, let's stop wasting time and just send in Social Services now.

    Those parents are 100% guaranteed to be up to something, with a spot of luck they'll both be left-handed so we can have them burned as witches and be done with it.
    i would imagine they are perfectly fine, and the kid will grow up a decent and level-headed individual. that is my hope. i wasn't being specific to this kid, as i took care to point out.

    i was thinking more about the Bieber's, Brittneys, Downey-Jnrs, etc. the list is sadly long and well known.
    So for me, personally, that (maybe disproportionate) dread is always in the background when i see a kid i feel may be being strongly encouraged by parents to perform on a public platform.
    will they handle all the pressure and attention well or badly, short and long term?
    and if some of that pressure is coming from within the home, where can a kid who needs a break (but doesn't want to disappoint loved ones) retreat to if they need to?

    i was exaggerating for effect in the section you quoted. but my general point was about conflicted feelings it is possible to feel in these situations. maybe i worry too much.
    i am the hired assassin... the specialist. i introduce myself to you... i'm a sadist.
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  • All that needed saying was that the  kid sounds pretty good and looks to be having a great time. 

    Instead of that it’s all gone a bit Lesbians at a food bank . 
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2811
    Clarky said:
    WezV said:
    pia98jf said:
    Well at the other extreme are parents who don’t give a shit so perhaps I shouldn’t be too critical. 

    @ Riftand WezV - is that how ‘endorsements’work then? You’re expected to provide free equipment and if the artist likes it you get endorsed. If they don’t, or get a better deal somewhere else, they then sell it to make themselves a tidy profit?
    Depends on the size of the artist.  Simple endorsement deals for local up and coming bands may just be a discount.  The bigger the artist, the more free stuff and support they get.

    A friend had one with a major amp company that got him a free stack and 20% of anything else he wanted


    funnily enough... my old school mate is Gary Wallis
    we used to be in a band together as teenagers..
    me on guitar, him on drums..
    when he was just another SE London estate kid he couldn't afford anything and his parents did everything they could to help him..
    Now he's a world famous drummer / percussionist
    I remember him saying to me once that it's nuts.. cos now can afford it, folks give him drum stuff for free
    It came up in a podcast I listen to recently.

    Paraphrased: ‘don’t waste forever trying to research and buy the best piece of gear, spend that energy getting good and working hard and you’ll end up getting it anyway’
    hahaaaa.... awesome...
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • tampaxboo said:
    randella said:
    tampaxboo said:
    so i can't help watching these sort of things feeling superficially positive, a kid enjoying their interest is a good thing, but with a little pilot light of dread burning in the back of my mind thinking 'is this kid going to end up another failed-to-fulfil-potential crackhead childstar at nineteen?'
    Tell you what, let's stop wasting time and just send in Social Services now.

    Those parents are 100% guaranteed to be up to something, with a spot of luck they'll both be left-handed so we can have them burned as witches and be done with it.
    i would imagine they are perfectly fine, and the kid will grow up a decent and level-headed individual. that is my hope. i wasn't being specific to this kid, as i took care to point out.

    i was thinking more about the Bieber's, Brittneys, Downey-Jnrs, etc. the list is sadly long and well known.
    So for me, personally, that (maybe disproportionate) dread is always in the background when i see a kid i feel may be being strongly encouraged by parents to perform on a public platform.
    will they handle all the pressure and attention well or badly, short and long term?
    and if some of that pressure is coming from within the home, where can a kid who needs a break (but doesn't want to disappoint loved ones) retreat to if they need to?

    i was exaggerating for effect in the section you quoted. but my general point was about conflicted feelings it is possible to feel in these situations. maybe i worry too much.
    I agree with your sentiments on this. If the kid was playing a Squier in his bedroom - normal kids' stuff - I'd be bowled over by his playing. But the £££s of gear that he hasn't paid for himself, the stupid clothes, the overbearing chat and Dad's trying to blag free stuff, makes me feel very uncomfortable about this kid and how he'll turn out.

    Someone mentioned Thomas McRocklin before, which is a decent enough comparison. He's spoken a bit about not having a normal childhood and having to readjust into adult life. Without getting my pitchfork on, I can see that sort of journey happening to this young chap as well. On the other hand, if he gets to play fantastic guitar in front of thousands of people, that's what I guess most of us dream doing of so who are we to say that's wrong? But there is a risk of depriving the lad of a normal childhood which is not to be done lightly. 
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 683
    I'm wondering if some of the theories about being concerned for the boy is just cause some feel guilty about thinking he's an annoying wee... :P
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  • BucketBucket Frets: 7600
    edited December 2017
    Forgot to mention - I actually have a music degree and my job is in teaching music. Just so you're aware I have no axe to grind with "experts"... apparently I AM one.

    But I teach people how to play, sing and enjoy music, and how to understand it from an objective, theoretical point of view. I still wouldn't ever claim that I am qualified to tell anyone that one form of music is objectively better than another, because everyone has their own views on it and who would I be to contradict those? I am of the view that some pieces of music ARE objectively better than others according to my own taste, but I would never use that opinion (for that is what it is) to skew someone else's views on music.

    As far as I'm concerned, that is an entirely reasonable approach to take. I don't think it's my place as a teacher to force my own views of which music is better than other types of music, and I would be extremely uneasy with any teacher who does take that view. That's why I can't let this go - there is a world of difference between being an "expert" in music and being able to inform others, and trying to force the idea that some music is objectively brilliant and some should objectively be ignored because it is objectively awful. That, to me, seems like a smokescreen, a way to legitimise having a narrow mind towards music, which I think is always a dangerous road to go down. I don't think any music should be ignored - people should listen to whatever the hell they want and enjoy it without fear of judgement by so-called "experts" who'd rather they sat and listened to Beethoven.

    (I'm not big on Beethoven by the way - I far prefer later classical music such as that of Debussy, whose approach to harmony and theory is objectively worse - half the time he's not even paying any attention to key at all, for heaven's sake! He's objectively worse then... oh wait, except for the fact that I can listen to Beethoven for ages and feel barely moved by it, whereas the smallest snippet of Debussy makes my hair stand on end. Am I making myself any clearer?)
    - "I'm going to write a very stiff letter. A VERY stiff letter. On cardboard."
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  • KalimnaKalimna Frets: 419
    Genuine question - for what reason do you not rate Bonamassa as highly as Howlin Wolf, say?
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 7990
    pia98jf said:
    p90fool said:
    pia98jf said:
    Are you still banging on? 

    You know it's not even that anyone disagrees with you particularly strongly, there often IS a consensus about whether art is good or bad, but that doesn't mean we're not allowed to enjoy the lowbrow shit from time to time. 

    Give it a bleedin' rest, seriously, or you'll drive yourself mad. 
    Here we go, shout me down because you don’t agree with me. You give it a rest ‘fool’.
    I WAS agreeing with you, or at least not really disagreeing.  

    The problem is that you're upholding a position which claims that technical skill makes Beethoven's music objectively higher quality than Taylor Swift's, but saying the exact opposite when comparing Robert Johnson with Joe Bonamassa, that technical skill actually lessens its artistic merit. 

    Now by coincidence I agree with your conclusions, Beethoven and Robert Johnson can give me goosebumps, unlike JB or the cringey kid in the OP, but I'm humble enough to know that if anyone disagrees with MY TASTE they're not "wrong".

    It took me until I was about 18 to realise that "good" music and music I really like are not necessarily the same thing. Trashy can be glorious, and highbrow can be fucking tedious, it really is down to personal opinion or even mood.  

    Darkened room and a good single malt? Give me Beethoven or Robert Johnson. Long car journey? Taylor Swift every time.  

    Lighten up, really. 
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  • BRISTOL86BRISTOL86 Frets: 1430
    pia98jf said:
    Kalimna said:
    Genuine question - for what reason do you not rate Bonamassa as highly as Howlin Wolf, say?
    On many levels - originality, lyrical quality, vocal delivery, authenticity, emotional impact... Not to say Joe doesn’t have any of these, he’s just not in the same league.
    With all due respect, you’re simply stating your opinion as fact. 

    If JBs music makes me ‘feel’ something more than Howlin’ Wolf’s does, then the emotional impact is greater. This isn’t science, you can’t boil down the impact of music to an equation or measure it on a scale. 

    Also originality is something of a cheap shot when you’re comparing people almost from different centuries! 
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  • BucketBucket Frets: 7600
    p90fool said:
    Darkened room and a good single malt? Give me Beethoven or Robert Johnson. Long car journey? Taylor Swift every time. 
    This, actually. Context is very important.

    Nick Drake is one of my favourite artists of all time, but it is very rare that I'll listen to him in the car. And I wouldn't listen to the majority of more contemporary pop music when in a chilling-out-and-just-listening kind of mood, but for singing along while driving it's perfect. One form of music is no less valid than the other. If you asked me to choose between the two, I couldn't - because each appeals to me about equally, but in very different ways.
    - "I'm going to write a very stiff letter. A VERY stiff letter. On cardboard."
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  • dbphotodbphoto Frets: 119
    edited December 2017
    If art, of any variety, needs to be explained, then it's pretentious crap.
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  • BRISTOL86BRISTOL86 Frets: 1430
    pia98jf said:

    BRISTOL86 said:
    pia98jf said:
    Kalimna said:
    Genuine question - for what reason do you not rate Bonamassa as highly as Howlin Wolf, say?
    On many levels - originality, lyrical quality, vocal delivery, authenticity, emotional impact... Not to say Joe doesn’t have any of these, he’s just not in the same league.
    With all due respect, you’re simply stating your opinion as fact. 

    If JBs music makes me ‘feel’ something more than Howlin’ Wolf’s does, then the emotional impact is greater. This isn’t science, you can’t boil down the impact of music to an equation or measure it on a scale. 

    Also originality is something of a cheap shot when you’re comparing people almost from different centuries! 
    We’re just going round in circles. I’ve already said why I believe there can be some objectivity in assessing a work of art. But stick to your own beliefs, I’m sure they’ve served you well.


    They have, it’s why I listen to music I like and not music that someone tells me I should like. 
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  • CHRISB50CHRISB50 Frets: 1753
    edited December 2017

    It's almost like you're trolling now.

    You've criticised others for shouting you down, but that's all you are doing.

    You said people got insulting. Now you're the one who is chucking around insults.

    It takes 43 muscles to frown, only 17 to smile. Give yourself a break. Get happy.

    Peace.

    x

    I can't help about the shape I'm in, I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin

    But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to

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  • tachycardia23tachycardia23 Frets: 6
    edited December 2017
    EDIT: I removed this because it was pretty mean. He's only a kid...
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2811
    kinda sad how this thread has gone...
    it was just a vid of a really talented young boy, playing remarkably well for his age, looking like he's having an absolute ball..

    parents and everything else aside...
    I wish him absolutely the best of luck and really hope that he grows up to become everything he wants to be
    and goes on to have a great career..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1759
    edited December 2017
    Clarky said:
    kinda sad how this thread has gone...
    it was just a vid of a really talented young boy, playing remarkably well for his age, looking like he's having an absolute ball..

    parents and everything else aside...
    I wish him absolutely the best of luck and really hope that he grows up to become everything he wants to be
    and goes on to have a great career..
    Yeah, right on @Clarky

    This is why we can't have nice things.

    There's a great interview somewhere with Paul Gilbert where he talks about counting in your riffs, stomping your foot, moving your body with the beat, y'know - injecting a bit of feel.  What he calls "pulling your 'rock' face".

    It was so refreshing to see this vid which Rabs posted as a bit of light-hearted entertainment.  The kid was playing like he actually enjoyed it and it made such a refreshing change from the usual guy with a custom shop Les Paul and a £3.5k amp turned up to 0.001, staring dead-eyed into his webcam playing the outro solo from Paradise City without twitching a muscle in his face, like he's playing Call of Duty and not rebellious, aggressive hard rock.

    This kid has licks the like of which took me a long time to learn, played with an authority that took me longer, if anything.  Ask yourselves: could you bend an A to a B at the 10th fret of the B-string with that sort of vibrato at the top of the bend when you were 11?

    At least @tachycardia23 is being honest, the kid gets on his or her tits.  Fair enough. 

    Instead it all descends into authoritative judgement of his parents based on 100% guesswork, with a separate ding-dong about how music isn't music because technique or is music because family deaths and rampant drug addiction or isn't music because bloody Picasso.

    I'm all for debate and a lot of it has been interesting, but sometimes - despite the fact I make a very good living from it - I wish the Internet with all its obsessive quantification and nitpicking of fun had never been invented.
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1759
    Incidentally @Bucket - this wasn't a stab at you.  I don't know how you've mustered the energy.
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  • I removed my comment because whaling on a kid isn't a good look. Best of luck to him, his skill is not in doubt from me.
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  • BucketBucket Frets: 7600
    pia98jf said:
    When I’ve been backed into a corner yes.
    After last night's excesses I've been trying to conduct myself more civilly in this thread but come on... backed into a corner?

    Give me fucking strength.
    - "I'm going to write a very stiff letter. A VERY stiff letter. On cardboard."
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  • CHRISB50CHRISB50 Frets: 1753
    edited December 2017

    pia98jf said:
    CHRISB50 said:

    It's almost like you're trolling now.

    You've criticised others for shouting you down, but that's all you are doing.

    You said people got insulting. Now you're the one who is chucking around insults.

    It takes 43 muscles to frown, only 17 to smile. Give yourself a break. Get happy.

    Peace.

    x

    Yet you take it up with me? Where’s your criticism of the people who got insulting earlier? Why aren’t you telling those people to “get happy”?

    It’s completely one-sided. Because a group of people happen to disagree with one person they think they can bully them into submission. I don’t even care strongly about the original issue. The only reason I’ve continued to argue is because I refuse to back down in the face of bullies.

    I'm not a bully, and I'm genuinely sorry if you feel that way. Not my intention. I've been posting on here for 4 years or so, and MR before. I don't think I've ever fallen out with anyone during that period as it's not really my style. So in a way, you are quite special.

    I haven't been nasty. I just don't agree with you. I thought some of the things you wrote were slightly hypocritical, so I picked you up on it. 

    If you feel wronged, and are really unhappy about it, perhaps you could use the emotion to write a blues. Post it on here and show the kid how it's done

    I guess there isn't a lot more to be gained by continuing this discussion. So I'll leave it there.

    Tchuss


    I can't help about the shape I'm in, I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin

    But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to

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