Frustration

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mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700

Last night, whilst using a metronome I could get simple timing right. Even simple powerchord stuff that I've played (almost literally) 1 bazillion times.

 

AHHHHHHHHH FRUSTRATION.

 

Shall try again tonight.

Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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Comments

  • DulcetJonesDulcetJones Frets: 515
    mike_l said:

    Last night, whilst using a metronome I could get simple timing right. Even simple powerchord stuff that I've played (almost literally) 1 bazillion times.

     

    AHHHHHHHHH FRUSTRATION.

    Did you mean "couldn't"?  When I first used a metronome I had trouble too, I had to dial it down to a ridiculously slow speed.  Once I could play in time to that I gradually pushed up the tempo and it didn't take long to get used to it.  Just like anything, it's a learning experience in itself.  On the other side of the coin, I find that playing difficult songs at a really slow steady tempo to be a great way to make them sound better when you do crank up the tempo.  You have the time to hear and feel every nuance and accent, and learn where and when to apply dynamics. 

     



    “Theory is something that is written down after the music has been made so we can explain it to others”– Levi Clay


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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
     

    Did you mean "couldn't"? 

    I had to dial it down to a ridiculously slow speed.  Once I could play in time to that I gradually pushed up the tempo and it didn't take long to get used to it.  Just like anything, it's a learning experience in itself.  

    Yes, the frustration made me have a typo.

    I have slowed down to 65 BPM, simple "1&2&3&4&" powerchord blues type exercises, son absolutely nothing that you would do as an absolute beginner, and I couldn't get the timing on at all. The picking was spot-on as was my counting, just it wasn't in time with the metronome.

     

    Gah.

    Shall have another go tonight.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Clap.

    No really. If you can't feel it then you can't do it.
    Sit down with the metronome, tap your foot on the quarter notes and then clap in time with the metronome too.
    Sing it if it helps.

    Also, when you play do you keep time with your foot?
    It really, REALLY helps.

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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    octatonic said:
    Clap.
    No really. If you can't feel it then you can't do it.
    Sing it if it helps.
    Also, when you play do you keep time with your foot?
    It really, REALLY helps.


    Never heard singing as a timing aid before. Pitch yes, but never timing.

    Shall try both of those over the weekend.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • randomhandclapsrandomhandclaps Frets: 20521
    edited March 2014
    mike_l said:

    Never heard singing as a timing aid before. Pitch yes, but never timing.

    Shall try both of those over the weekend.

    In private, mind.  It can be a bit unsettling for others at a bus stop.     

    ;)

    My muse is not a horse and art is not a race.
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    edited March 2014
    mike_l said
    Never heard singing as a timing aid before. Pitch yes, but never timing.

    Shall try both of those over the weekend.

    In private, mind.  It can be a bit unsettling for others at a bus stop.     

    ;)


    If anyone is unlucky enough to hear me "sing" will confirm it's somewhere between Max Cavalera and Johnny Rotten.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1133
    Not really metronome, but Pual Gilbert timing lesson in 1min, notice his whole body goes with the rhythm and tapping his foot too.


    A bit longer at 59mins for his whole clinic and performance at Guitar Center Hollywood 2012.  You may find some inspiration here.
    If you drop in around 52 mins in you will see when he starts playing how foot tapping to keep rhythm is one of his things.  It happens a fair bit when he is performing too.  I was looking for one of his clinics where he makes a big point about internalising rhythm, I'm not sure if it is in this one.
    Maybe all you need to do then is to sync your own food tapping etc with the metronome beat.  I have to say I hate metronomes, they just feel so artificial.



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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    Slowing down a metronome makes mistakes much more obvious - it's the hardest thing to do with a metronome.
    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 10337
    60 bpm is surprisingly tricky at first

    try something like 102bpm. 

    The foot tapping thing is very important

    and the most important thing when doing anything music related






    relax
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    60 bpm is surprisingly tricky at first

    try something like 102bpm. 

    The foot tapping thing is very important

    and the most important thing when doing anything music related
     
    relax

    Annotingly I can play a bunch of thrash songs at full-up tempo, slowing to 65-75 BPM is really screwing me up.

    Mind the relax thing I should take note of, I get frustrated, annoyed, and that probably compounds the problem.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    The reality is that you're probably not hitting the notes at full tempo then, it's just that the fudge factor increases at higher speeds.

    Best way to check is to record it and slow it down :)


    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • Would be interesting to record your thrashing to a click and slow it down!

    Try a nice comfy scale at 120 bpm...metronome on the quarter notes (120bpm).
    Try same comfy scale at 120 bpm again...but with metronome on the half notes (60bpm)...1&3, 2&4...try both.
    Try same comfy scale at 120 bpm again...but with metronome on the whole notes (30bpm)...you've got to be feeling it to make this one work...brain itch ;)
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    Would be interesting to record your thrashing to a click and slow it down!

    Done that, It seems to be more of a slow-down issue than a speed-up issue.

    Also, @Clarky a while ago* suggested making sure both hands are doing the same at slow speed as well as higher tempos, so I'm trying to make sure the pick is going down when it should, and up when it should.

    Brain itch doesn't really cover it.

     

    *probably on MR

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    edited March 2014

    here's a lil' thought...

    most people struggle hugely to play tight at very low tempi. he reason for this is because they try to play everything at exactly the same level.. essentuially.. without accents.. not only is this extremely unnatural and shite sounding, it feels highly unnatural and awkward..

    so even when practicing "slo-mo", stick the accents in [because they are a natural part of your playing.

    for example.. 1/16 notes: ONE e and a, TWO e and a etc

    triplet 1/8 notes: ONE and a, TWO and a, etc

    the accents help you to 'feel' the count.

    initially you will no doubt play  the accents overly strong.. eventually they'll be just a gnat's stronger.. the up side of this is that your phrasing will improve..

    play every note as if it were your first
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700

    Thanks Clarky

    I tend to count triplet as 1-trip-let 2-trip-let etc though.

     

    I think Frankus has also hit part of the issue, that I'm not hitting the strings at full speed too.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261

    sometimes the real tricky part to playing slow is when you're practicing non-alternate picking patterns..

    cos somehow they only seem to make sense when you're up there in flight

    at very low practice tempi they can feel a little awkward and clumsy..

    that said.. it's good medicine to nail them slow anyhow..

    play every note as if it were your first
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  • digitalkettledigitalkettle Frets: 3124
    edited March 2014
    mike_l said: I tend to count triplet as 1-trip-let 2-trip-let etc though.
    Whatever works but your version is a bit clunky due to the plosives(?) at the end of 'trip' and 'let' ;)
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    mike_l;180170" said:
    Never heard singing as a timing aid before. Pitch yes, but never timing.

    Shall try both of those over the weekend.
    Are you kidding? Singing is the ultimate rhythm exercise! Timing is what separates the good vocalists from the great, and even though I have a voice like a little girl sucked in helium AND gravel then got a sore throat and was asked to mimic the sound of a goose farting in the fog, I still think that my singing experience has massively improved my ability to really feel grooves.
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  • beed84beed84 Frets: 2403
    Feeling the groove before playing it is important.

    Perhaps try setting the metronome to a slow speed and tap it out first.  Then speed it up and do the same again.  If it's 4/4 accent the 1st and 3rd beats as you would on guitar. If it helps, listen to what you the tempo and visualise what is you realistically want to be playing on guitar.  Do whatever you can to internalise the beat and the tempo then transfer it across to the instrument. You might already be doing this but maybe just try the tempo on one string to start with.

    One way to come unstuck is to start SLOW and achieve ACCURACY.
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