Graham Coxon tone and playing on Charmless Man

impmann

darthed1981 said:

Just re-reading all the posts above about Suede and Butler post flounce...

I love both's outputs afterwards.  Bernard hasn't done much in recent years but his two solo albums (especially the first) are must-listens for fans (I adore the singles), and both McAlmont and Butler albums are good.  "Yes" and "You Do" remain masterpieces.

As for Suede, "Coming Up" is a favourite of mine, but "Head Music" and especially "A New Morning" are ropey for long stretches, though perfectly listenable.  However, Suede's two albums since their comeback are both really, really good IMHO.

Bang on about Bernard ‘s solo albums - People Move On is superb.
The song “Autograph” is amazing.

tampaxboo

modellista said:

tampaxboo said:

pretty sure it's a tele and a rat, from what i remember reading about his kit.

as for coxon's rep.... etc (edited to save space, see above for full post).

I enjoyed reading this but I'm not sure I agree with everything.  I think it's a bit much to expect Coxon to have achieved more if he wasn't in Blur.  Being the musical force behind a groundbreaking band who straddled multiple genres over thirty years is quite an achievement.  Plus his solo output exists, so we know exactly how a Blur-less Coxon would have sounded - it's good, but it's not as stunning as Blur at their best.  Fair enough, some people don't like the Britpop era despite it being the last British guitar movement, but really only two of their albums are full-on Britpop, and even then they're some of that genre's cleverest and most beautiful work.

I can't see much of a difference in the tumultuous relationship between Butler and Anderson compared to Coxon and Albarn.  It's practically the same thing - ego-driven singer seeks to control band's artistic direction, genius-level guitarist objects to being pushed around.  It's always going to be the same.  

As for your last line - when Bernard left Suede they went on to have a massively successful career with his replacement which still endures to this day, while Bernard has never really regained his status as a guitar hero.  When Coxon left Blur they floundered around and never recorded an album without him, and he's been back in the band for nearly ten years.  While I agree that Bernard leaving Suede was a shame, in my opinion he needed them more than they needed him, which is the opposite to Blur and Coxon.

i like 'there's no other way' from the early blur days. that guitar riff is a 90s classic. up there with 'teen spirit' (tho i hate that lame riff). it's got a lovely bendy slidy-smeary offbeat feel to it that promised much.
after that point i feel that the media attention that followed that single spun their heads a bit.
before then they had bounced around and been another shoegaze band, lots of generic shambly jangly fuzz, but some interesting and original bits and pieces.
but once they got their faces in smash hits etc that sniff of potential fame, fortune and mass teen adulation seemed to steer them into focusing future output on chart domination, rather than ideas and music for ideas and music's sake.

ultimately they became not much more than shameless 'pastiche-eurs'. eg, here's a wire soudalike. here's a kinks soundalike. here's a francoise hardy soudalike. what simon reynolds calls 'record collection' bands. bands who are no more than the bare-faced sum of their influences. no abiding gestalt (sorry for the fancy word) to define them as a force beyond imitation.
you can say that's very witty and post-modern, but it's the kipling quote again; 'it's clever, but is it art?'. post-punchline what is left? a creative artistic vacuum left in the space in which an original statement could have been. a wasted opportunity.
post-britpop they calmed down, got a grip and defined themselves, but by then group dynamics had descended into the 'let it be' phase and their days as a collective were numbered.

my view anyway. i was pretty young (school/college) so that is how i remember it. they seemed very smash hits to me, whereas groups like slowdive and stereolab were doing something original.

graham was always the one i warmed to most when reading interviews and seeing him on the chart show. but i felt he was trapped. if he was in slowdive or stereolab or something similar he would have been happier and achieved more. maybe.
but he seems shy like me, so i can get how a big personality face like damon could take charge and him not want to be a voice of dissent when everyone else wanted totp glory.

as for bernard, suede had success but they weren't the same. lush swoony guitar soaked ballads like 'breakdown' and 'sleeping pills' disappeared and poppier more immidiate things like 'trash' and 'she's in fashion' replaced it. for me suede was bernard and brett thinking and writing as one.
i would agree he didn't move from that to something equally successful, but that would have been quite suprising. chemistry such as he found with brett is usually a one-off. the mcalmont album was good tho. and 'yes' was a mighty pop statement (as the jools clip above tesitfies).

stickyfiddle

I don't care about the arty side of it. I think that's bollocks tbh. I like songs.

Blur wrote some fantastic songs, many of which were Coxon-heavy, and most of them are great. 

As for Suede. I like Butler's playing, but honestly I think Coming Up is their best album by a country mile.

RandallFlagg

stickyfiddle said:

I don't care about the arty side of it. I think that's bollocks tbh. I like songs.

Blur wrote some fantastic songs, many of which were Coxon-heavy, and most of them are great. 

As for Suede. I like Butler's playing, but honestly I think Coming Up is their best album by a country mile.

Wis'd! My favourite Suede album is Coming Up as well. 

TTBZ

stickyfiddle said:

I don't care about the arty side of it. I think that's bollocks tbh. I like songs.

Blur wrote some fantastic songs, many of which were Coxon-heavy, and most of them are great. 

As for Suede. I like Butler's playing, but honestly I think Coming Up is their best album by a country mile.

Agreed. So many great songs with creative guitar playing.

Blur were definitely the most interesting and creative band in the otherwise awful britpop genre imo. 

darthed1981

Going back to the OP, I agree Charmless Man is a bit of a lost Blur classic,  as is Stereotypes off the same album.

Id commend their off forgotten 2nd album Modern Life Is Rubbish to anyone, it's basically solid gold all the way through and it has some classic Coxon playing on it.

UnclePsychosis

Whenever I think about Graham Coxon and Blur I inevitably end up missing one of my all-time favourite tshirts. :-(

https://www.humonegro.com/wp-content/BLUR-ARE-SHITE.jpg

meltedbuzzbox

stickyfiddle said:

I don't care about the arty side of it. I think that's bollocks tbh. I like songs.

Blur wrote some fantastic songs, many of which were Coxon-heavy, and most of them are great. 

Very well put sir.
There is some right guardian style bullshit regurgitation going on in this thread

Moltisanti

i'd forgotten how jumpy Albarn was in his youth before he went all moody, great tune though, quirky and original.
I would have said it sounds like an AC30 but I have no idea what he used

Musicman20

Wasn't he a Marshall stack user?

Modellista

meltedbuzzbox said:

stickyfiddle said:

I don't care about the arty side of it. I think that's bollocks tbh. I like songs.

Blur wrote some fantastic songs, many of which were Coxon-heavy, and most of them are great. 

Very well put sir.
There is some right guardian style bullshit regurgitation going on in this thread

Sigh.  And there was me thinking that I've actually come across a thread in which people are prepared to engage brain and write long-form responses that have had some thought put into them.  If you don't like it, it would be much appreciated if you'd keep your negative thoughts to yourselves and let us get on with it.  And perhaps start a new thread entitled "Short words, short sentences - music criticism for the hard of thinking".

stickyfiddle

modellista said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

stickyfiddle said:

I don't care about the arty side of it. I think that's bollocks tbh. I like songs.

Blur wrote some fantastic songs, many of which were Coxon-heavy, and most of them are great. 

Very well put sir.
There is some right guardian style bullshit regurgitation going on in this thread

Sigh.  And there was me thinking that I've actually come across a thread in which people are prepared to engage brain and write long-form responses that have had some thought put into them.  If you don't like it, it would be much appreciated if you'd keep your negative thoughts to yourselves and let us get on with it.  And perhaps start a new thread entitled "Short words, short sentences - music criticism for the hard of thinking".

FWIW my comment was more aimed at the "very smash hits" comment, rather than your posts, a lot of which I do agree with. 

I think both Blur and Coxon were worse off without each other. It was very much a partnership that lead to a "more than sum of parts" arrangement with Coxon & Albarn sparking off each other. 

meltedbuzzbox

modellista said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

stickyfiddle said:

I don't care about the arty side of it. I think that's bollocks tbh. I like songs.

Blur wrote some fantastic songs, many of which were Coxon-heavy, and most of them are great. 

Very well put sir.
There is some right guardian style bullshit regurgitation going on in this thread

Sigh.  And there was me thinking that I've actually come across a thread in which people are prepared to engage brain and write long-form responses that have had some thought put into them.  If you don't like it, it would be much appreciated if you'd keep your negative thoughts to yourselves and let us get on with it.  And perhaps start a new thread entitled "Short words, short sentences - music criticism for the hard of thinking".

So intellectual context is measured by superfluous content and drivel?
I'd be happier with the straight to the point method.

I'd prefer not to be a critical of music generally, these guys, particularly in this case blur and to some extent suede, have achieved so much more than anyone on this thread. I wouldn't knock them for their achievements or sit about spouting hypothesis of greater achievement based on a solitary opinion.
They've made a living from doing what I dream to do.

Given that if you dive hard enough you will find an influence from x,y or z on any track ever written it all seems pointless. 
I don't dish out points for your eclectic taste and ability to make comparisons. I'd more impressed if you could show something that you have done that would add weight to your opinion.
It's easy to be critical from your arm chair and frankly it can be awfully boring.

Western music stems from the same foundations and theory and is limited by 12 notes. Not many people stray beyond the confined structure.
There are centuries worth of music in circulation you will always find similarities.

impmann

Modern Life is Rubbish is, IMHO, Blur's finest album. I remember putting it on my turntable for the first time back in the day and being blown away by it. It was a game changer - and predated the Gallagher brothers by a margin.
Yes, some may sneer at the "borrowing" from the Kinks, Small Faces etc but until that point (with the exception of Suede's more art-school/Bowie esque stylings), most music was looking to the US for influence. People were still buying Big Muffs, dodgy cardigans and trying to be the next Cobain - thankfully, IMHO, the overt British-ness of MLIR and some of the other music that exploded (and it did explode... I was playing original music around the clubs/pubs of London at that time) blew that introverted bollocks squarely out of the water. Gone were the woe-is-me angst and in was the "what the fuck is this all about... 'ave it!" mentality. We celebrated being who we were - not what we were told to aspire to.

I also get pissed off by the "Smash Hits" bollocks about Blur. By this point, Blur were doing the Starshaped Tour (which I followed around the country) and were nothing like their previous "baggy" image that had been foisted on them by their record company. It was that image that put them on the cover of Smash Hits - and they rebelled MASSIVELY against it pretty much as soon as they'd stopped promoting that first album... which was weak. Some great Graham moments but stylistically it was a mess - Graham was trying to be Neil Young (his words), Damon was singing with forced Americanisms and Dave and Alex were constrained by trying to be "dancy". As soon as the DMs, shorter hair, blue jeans (hence the song Blue Jeans later) etc came in - along with the partying - Smash Hits dropped them like a stone. However, by this point the "serious" wankers on the Maker and NME had them pigeon-holed as wannabe pop stars. Actually, they were doing something different - its just that those wankers were too busy looking for sunlight in their own arseholes (as normal) to see it.

I agree that the world isn't as great a place since they've stopped working together - however, I'd also say it had run its course and it was the right decision. Graham's solo stuff is BRILLIANT (and incredibly varied) plus has got so much better since he got sober and cleaned up his act, Damon's stuff with Gorillaz was... not my bag but a clever concept, sadly some of the other stuff was weak IMHO (worthy, but weak).

I remember the scene *well* at the time - and some of the bands I supported or even supported us went on to great things. Some were good and some were not. The cream did rise to the top, but as Jarvis says... "shit floats". Blur were amazing back then - I probably saw them live more than any other of the Britpop guys and live it was always 110% commitment. And having been kicked in the head by Damon as he crowd surfed over us as Graham sang "please don't kill our singer" to the tune of There's No Other Way, they are special memories.

darthed1981

Great points @impmann ;

I'm going to go ahead and stick up for all three of the "Britpop" era Blur albums (MLIR, Parklife and Great Escape). 

TGE is certainly weaker than the other two but it has some real stand out tracks, plus it actually has twists and turns in a way most albums don't, who expected a song about sadly seperated Japanese lovers at the end?  Also "The Universal" is on it.  I should have led with that.

TGE was also the first Blur album I ever bought, from Spinadisc in Northampton

Modellista

Brilliant anecdotes from @impmann.

I knew we could do better than a load of "bullshit", "bollocks", and "shite".

stickyfiddle

modellista said:

Brilliant anecdotes from @impmann.

I knew we could do better than a load of "bullshit", "bollocks", and "shite".

Agreed. Though I still think arty music is bollocks

impmann

stickyfiddle said:

modellista said:

Brilliant anecdotes from @impmann.

I knew we could do better than a load of "bullshit", "bollocks", and "shite".

Agreed. Though I still think arty music is bollocks

Even Bowie?

stickyfiddle

impmann said:

stickyfiddle said:

modellista said:

Brilliant anecdotes from @impmann.

I knew we could do better than a load of "bullshit", "bollocks", and "shite".

Agreed. Though I still think arty music is bollocks

Even Bowie?

Some of it, yes, absolutely. I'm just not interested in songwriting that's about being clever before writing a great song. 

mikem8634

Just a general observation - different things light up different parts of different brains, none more valid than the next, all equally worthy.

The first two Suede albums move me.