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Suddenly thinking I might sell up and go Helix LT in 2018

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MegiiMegii Frets: 1670
I just find myself thinking this all of a sudden, but perhaps should have done it when I got my Boss MS-3 - that's nice, does a lot, has made my pedal board very user friendly. But really, a few hundred quid more at the time, and I could have done away with all the mess of wires under the board, and got a nice streamlined Helix LT, that I presume would do everything I could need and more.

So have I been a fool and daft to resist doing this as long as I have? Or just having a funny turn? :D I'd probably only be using the LT as an FX device to replace the board i.e. guitar into LT into clean amp, although I guess that could change in time, and it would still be good to know I've got the amp modelling and IR capabilities. Anyhow - does this make sense? - I'm thinking I could sell up most of the stuff on the board to raise a bit towards the cost, and it wouldn't be too painful financially as a result, although I'd probably have to get the LT, then sell the pedals and MS-3 in that order. Am I being blind to significant downsides?

Another of those should I/shouldn't I re the Helix threads I know, probably impossible to answer, but I welcome your thoughts all the same, cheers.

 
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Comments

  • Using it just for fx? Don't bother, stick with what you have. Beyond removing cables I'm not sure what the advantage is...

    Now if you want to use the amp sims, use it as a recording interface etc... then yup go for it, it's amazing.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    edited December 2017
    There is little that multiFX units like the Helix or Fractal can’t do as well as or better than individual pedals. (Leave amp modelling out of the discussion because that’s a different issue). Yes, I know that reproducing some of the Strymon type effects need a bit of configuration, but it can be done. Once done there are big benefits in cost and operational convenience. The main reason that people try the Helix and go back to pedals is that they don’t like the configuration work. That’s understandable. Some of us don’t work that way.

    A good way in is borrow a unit, or buy second hand so that you can move it on at no loss if it doesn’t work for you.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • smigeonsmigeon Frets: 282
    I'm tempted a bit in the same direction.

    What would concern me most would be distortion/overdrive. After a lot of experimentation I've got a couple of pedals on my board that satisfy my needs and make me feel good when I play classic rocky stuff: an EHZ English Muff'n and a Rat. I've never quite managed to get what I get from these at gig volume using multi effects units (although I've never had a Helix) and my feeling is that it's probably quite hard to do that (for me). It's quite a subtle thing! I also play jazz and ASB type stuff and I'd probably (I'm guessing) be quite satisfied with a Helix into my valve amp for those genres, but rocky stuff is not so easy in my book.

    I wouldn't be so worried about finding satisfying delays and other effects on a good multi effects unit, even for classic rock, but I'd make quite sure I didn't get rid of my fave distortions prematurely.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    Using it just for fx? Don't bother, stick with what you have. Beyond removing cables I'm not sure what the advantage is...

    First off, multiFX removes the need for tap dancing, for example when changing from chorused verse with small room reverb to overdriven solo with deeper reverb and 600ms delay.

    Secondly, changing pedal settings without bending down, or carrying duplicates. In the example above you might need two reverb pedals. There are times when I’ve wanted different wah voicings for verse and solo, and not wanted to carry two wahs.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • MegiiMegii Frets: 1670
    Using it just for fx? Don't bother, stick with what you have. Beyond removing cables I'm not sure what the advantage is...

    Now if you want to use the amp sims, use it as a recording interface etc... then yup go for it, it's amazing.
    You do have a point, given I've already got a setup that does what I need well - I guess something like the Helix still has more effects capability than my current MS-3 oriented board, and I do like to explore. And the ability to have split fx routing and that kind of stuff? And your point re amp sims/recording interface - it's not stuff I do at the moment, but I have the feeling I might want to at some stage.
    Roland said:
    There is little that multiFX units like the Helix or Fractal can’t do as well as or better than individual pedals. (Leave amp modelling out of the discussion because that’s a different issue). Yes, I know that reproducing some of the Strymon type effects need a bit of configuration, but it can be done. Once done there are big benefits in cost and operational convenience. The main reason that people try the Helix and go back to pedals is that they don’t like the configuration work. That’s understandable. Some of us don’t work that way.

    A good way in is borrow a unit, or buy second hand so that you can move it on at no loss if it doesn’t work for you.
    Cheers, to be fair, I never got to the stage of buying top line Strymon or Eventide units anyhow, but I like the idea that something such as a Helix or Fractal is capable of getting into that kind of territory. And the operational convenience, if honest, is a biggie for me, with a view to gigging - yes the MS-3 has made my life a lot easier, but I suspect Helix (or indeed Fractal) would make it easier still. The Helix appeals especially because of the nice screen and interface. And yes, I should probably try to try one out, that would tell me a lot.
    smigeon said:
    I'm tempted a bit in the same direction.

    What would concern me most would be distortion/overdrive. After a lot of experimentation I've got a couple of pedals on my board that satisfy my needs and make me feel good when I play classic rocky stuff: an EHZ English Muff'n and a Rat. I've never quite managed to get what I get from these at gig volume using multi effects units (although I've never had a Helix) and my feeling is that it's probably quite hard to do that (for me). It's quite a subtle thing! I also play jazz and ASB type stuff and I'd probably (I'm guessing) be quite satisfied with a Helix into my valve amp for those genres, but rocky stuff is not so easy in my book.

    I wouldn't be so worried about finding satisfying delays and other effects on a good multi effects unit, even for classic rock, but I'd make quite sure I didn't get rid of my fave distortions prematurely.
    Like you, I have a couple of drive pedals I'm very attached to: RAT (Turbo version, actually just a cheap clone) and a DopeFX Black Lotus. I'd have to be very convinced the Helix could get those sounds before selling those, and still might not even if it did. So with you there! As to the general gig volume use of multi FX issue, I guess my MS-3 is a multi basically, and it works out fine for me re the sound. I too play jazz as it happens - a lot of those gigs are just guitar into Polytone amp, and that might not change. But I do love using all the kinds of sound I can get with FX.
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  • MegiiMegii Frets: 1670
    Roland said:
    Using it just for fx? Don't bother, stick with what you have. Beyond removing cables I'm not sure what the advantage is...

    First off, multiFX removes the need for tap dancing, for example when changing from chorused verse with small room reverb to overdriven solo with deeper reverb and 600ms delay.

    Secondly, changing pedal settings without bending down, or carrying duplicates. In the example above you might need two reverb pedals. There are times when I’ve wanted different wah voicings for verse and solo, and not wanted to carry two wahs.
    Yes, the tap dancing thing is a biggie for me. Although the Ms-3 has basically sorted that, I do still wish it just had a few more switches i.e. could do more presets per bank, so I don't have to change banks as much. Absolutely with you re the duplicates and being able to have more than one of the same effect type in a patch, one reason I got the MS-3.

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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    There are helplines for things like this on Xmas Day.

    People will help. Just pick up the phone.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • All I can relate is my own experience, in that buying a Helix (eventually) reminded me that I like the tangible “thing-ness” of pedals, and that the extra loops and routing stuff didn’t actually interest me after initial fiddling with them. Having gone back to a no-compromise , full-fat board, I’m very happy with it.

    If if I was gigging it might be a different story, but I ain’t, so it ain’t.
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • MegiiMegii Frets: 1670
    Gassage said:
    There are helplines for things like this on Xmas Day.

    People will help. Just pick up the phone.
    Love it! :D Cheers, I'll ring the Samaritans...
    All I can relate is my own experience, in that buying a Helix (eventually) reminded me that I like the tangible “thing-ness” of pedals, and that the extra loops and routing stuff didn’t actually interest me after initial fiddling with them. Having gone back to a no-compromise , full-fat board, I’m very happy with it.

    If if I was gigging it might be a different story, but I ain’t, so it ain’t.
    Understood @stickyfiddle - I've read your threads re going Helix, and then going back to pedals again with interest. At least you tried it, so you know what it is you're turning down. Maybe I need to do that as well, and see where I stand. Has to be an individual call in the end I guess. :)
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4159
    Buy a Line 6 M13, job done 
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  • MegiiMegii Frets: 1670
    sweepy said:
    Buy a Line 6 M13, job done 
    Cheers! And forgive me asking, but really? Are the mods/delays/verbs etc. on that up to top line Eventide/Strymon etc. standard. Are the drives indistinguishable from analog pedal equivalents? The ease of use equivalent to a Helix? Without having ever tried an M13 I admit, that does seem to me like a sideways move from my current MS-3 board at best.
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  • Roland said:
    Using it just for fx? Don't bother, stick with what you have. Beyond removing cables I'm not sure what the advantage is...

    First off, multiFX removes the need for tap dancing, for example when changing from chorused verse with small room reverb to overdriven solo with deeper reverb and 600ms delay.

    Secondly, changing pedal settings without bending down, or carrying duplicates. In the example above you might need two reverb pedals. There are times when I’ve wanted different wah voicings for verse and solo, and not wanted to carry two wahs.
    Op already has the boss multi fx unit that does a lot of those things... in terms of his setup LT seems a very expensive way of getting something similar if he his not making use of half the features.
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  • VJIvesVJIves Frets: 466
    I had this, but thankfully got the LT before I shifted any of my gear. I've got a couple of great guitars and a lovely valve amp, and I didn't click with the LT in the middle of them.
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  • MegiiMegii Frets: 1670
    Roland said:
    Using it just for fx? Don't bother, stick with what you have. Beyond removing cables I'm not sure what the advantage is...

    First off, multiFX removes the need for tap dancing, for example when changing from chorused verse with small room reverb to overdriven solo with deeper reverb and 600ms delay.

    Secondly, changing pedal settings without bending down, or carrying duplicates. In the example above you might need two reverb pedals. There are times when I’ve wanted different wah voicings for verse and solo, and not wanted to carry two wahs.
    Op already has the boss multi fx unit that does a lot of those things... in terms of his setup LT seems a very expensive way of getting something similar if he his not making use of half the features.
    It's true - I do already have the ability to store presets to change effects settings and types with the MS-3. I do think the functionality of the Helix LT would still be an improvement on that, and if honest I also think it would be more user friendly in terms of editing and creating patches in the first place. But maybe it is an expensive way of getting just a small improvement, not saying your wrong - I guess I was hoping someone with a Helix or LT would leap in to tell me just how much better the sounds are, how the range of effects is bigger, how it just takes you into a different league etc. etc. .

    So it could be a largely irrational want on my part, and not much of a need - and I've calmed down a bit now, but the itch is still there - I keep watching Helix demos... help! :D 
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  • MegiiMegii Frets: 1670
    VJIves said:
    I had this, but thankfully got the LT before I shifted any of my gear. I've got a couple of great guitars and a lovely valve amp, and I didn't click with the LT in the middle of them.
    I can certainly respect that, cheers @VJIves - I've actually never done the valve amp thing, so don't know what I'm missing there I guess. I do sometimes need an overdriven or distorted tone, but most of my stuff is clean tones with modulation/delay/verb and other effects for some of the gigs I do. I do like spacey ambient kind of tones, and have an idea to go to a stereo setup for some things. But I've always liked the simplicity of guitar-effects-clean amp, rather than using amp distortion and having to get into 4CM and midi channel switching etc. etc. .
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4159
    I’ve bought two Helix units and sold two, seriously have an extended try on one before you take the plunge 
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  • @Megii don't get me wrong I love helix a lot, but as an fx only device, I think it's kinda not much of a step up.
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  • Megii said:
    sweepy said:
    Buy a Line 6 M13, job done 
    Cheers! And forgive me asking, but really? Are the mods/delays/verbs etc. on that up to top line Eventide/Strymon etc. standard. Are the drives indistinguishable from analog pedal equivalents? The ease of use equivalent to a Helix? Without having ever tried an M13 I admit, that does seem to me like a sideways move from my current MS-3 board at best.
    Only my ears judging it, but I don't think the effects on the Helix are at the same level as Strymon/Eventide, etc. Fractal effects get closer, but even then I still preferred Strymons by a healthy margin.

    For ease of workflow, flexibility, convenience, etc, the Helix is very appealing, and the effects are good, but I ended up preferring pedals.
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  • MegiiMegii Frets: 1670
    edited December 2017
    sweepy said:
    I’ve bought two Helix units and sold two, seriously have an extended try on one before you take the plunge 
    Fair enough, got you, and an extended try cannot be a bad idea, cheers @sweepy

     
    Teetonetal said: @Megii don't get me wrong I love helix a lot, but as an fx only device, I think it's kinda not much of a step up.
    Also a very fair observation to make, appreciated @Teetonetal - I guess if I did do it, then I would probably be looking to use with an FRFR setup ultimately, and with an amp would maybe be a staging post on the way to that. What I seem to be getting from this thread is that it's a questionable thing to buy for anyone not interested in that kind o;


    BintyTwanger77 said: Megii said: sweepy said: Buy a Line 6 M13, job done  Cheers! And forgive me asking, but really? Are the mods/delays/verbs etc. on that up to top line Eventide/Strymon etc. standard. Are the drives indistinguishable from analog pedal equivalents? The ease of use equivalent to a Helix? Without having ever tried an M13 I admit, that does seem to me like a sideways move from my current MS-3 board at best. Only my ears judging it, but I don't think the effects on the Helix are at the same level as Strymon/Eventide, etc. Fractal effects get closer, but even then I still preferred Strymons by a healthy margin.

    For ease of workflow, flexibility, convenience, etc, the Helix is very appealing, and the effects are good, but I ended up preferring pedals. Appreciate your saying, cheers @BintyTwanger77
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  • Maybe wait and see what the next release has to offer. @Digital_Igloo already told us new reverbs are coming.

    Fwiw helix is very easy to use, is very flexible and line 6 have been releasing great updates. It might be a case of once you have it you get sucked into exploring it's options... but we've seen quite a few threads from people who can't shake off the amp part, be non plussed with the fx and move on.

    Just go test one and put your mind at rest.
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