Suddenly thinking I might sell up and go Helix LT in 2018

digitalscream

Megii said:

digitalscream said:

Megii said:

Thanks @digitalscream - it's a very positive thing for me that Line 6 is committed to firmware updates and adding new models/effects etc. Re being an effects only Helix owner - I guess I would be at first, and maybe for a while, but I do like the idea that I would have the capability to leap into the modern world of going straight into the PA and FRFR and all that if I want to, that could easily happen in my case. But your thoughts on possible future Helix family products are interesting and appreciated, cheers!

For what it's worth, I've gigged the Helix LT both FRFR + direct and through a Rocktron Velocity 120 power amp and Matrix NL212 guitar cab.

In terms of sound, the Velocity + cab worked best. FRFR got about 95% there with Ownhammer impulses, but having a FRFR monitor right next to me meant that I could hear myself with more clarity than I ever have at any gig, ever. Of course, there's no reason I couldn't do both...however, I prefer to keep my rig as simple and lightweight as possible.

Thanks @digitalscream - it's worth a fair bit to me to hear about how people actually use the Helix setup-wise, and how that works out, so cheers. I did notice Pete Thorn talking about and using Ownhammer impulses on his Helix demo video, which has to speak highly for those - it's all a world about which I know very little at the moment though. With you on the simple and lightweight rig also - nice if I could carry guitar in gig bag, Helix and some nice portable FRFR speaker in one trip from the car.

Yes. Don't get me wrong - while the sound is that crucial 5% better with the real cab, it means nothing if I can't hear myself properly on stage. The FRFR monitor I use (Alto TS210) solves that problem brilliantly.

It also means I can carry my entire rig in one trip from the car, with a free hand - guitar and Helix on shoulder straps, TS210 in one hand. I think the total is about 24kg.

Megii

Cheers @digitalscream - that would be the kind of setup that would suit me most of the time. Although it would be nice to have a second FRFR monitor for stereo on occasion. And understood re the real cab - I suppose impossible to replicate the effect of that shifting air exactly with modelling, however good.

Wazmeister

The drives are way better than the MS-3 imho and you wont be looking at an early 80s screen ! I personally thought the MS-3 was poor...

Also, there's nowt wrong with just using a Helix for effects only.

Its the ability to route anyway you can think of, is where the Helix scores

horse

Don't forget that whilst you think you only want to use it for the fx right now, you might well find that you like using the different amp models when playing with headphones on at home

Megii

Wazmeister said:

The drives are way better than the MS-3 imho and you wont be looking at an early 80s screen ! I personally thought the MS-3 was poor...

Also, there's nowt wrong with just using a Helix for effects only.

Its the ability to route anyway you can think of, is where the Helix scores

Thanks for that @Wazmeister, you're not helping me resist - you're right of course re the screen interface and editing ease, no contest there, and I have to believe the general quality of the effects and drives is a step up. And then just the increased flexibility and possibilties, the routing capability, the better access to sounds and presets, plus the ability to get into all the amp and cab modelling if I wish... Although I was happy enough with the sounds from the MS-3! - I think a bit of kit that would have seemed outstanding 5 years ago, but perhaps a tad over-priced now. Depends what someone wants of course, and we always think there's something better. If I do go Helix, I hope that will put a serious end to my upgrade fever for a good long time anyhow.

horse said:

Don't forget that whilst you think you only want to use it for the fx right now, you might well find that you like using the different amp models when playing with headphones on at home

A point that is not lost on me I assure you @horse!

Anyhow, dammit, this morning I noticed Dawsons doing them for £649 delivered, help...

Wazmeister

Having said all that, if you are happy with the MS-3 in your set up, why change it ?

All of us have GAS, and move ontological the next, 'better' thing, only to find that we yearn for a sound from the past...

Just go and try a Helix and see if it suits 'you'.

£649 is an awesfully tempting price though

Megii

Wazmeister said:

Having said all that, if you are happy with the MS-3 in your set up, why change it ?

All of us have GAS, and move ontological the next, 'better' thing, only to find that we yearn for a sound from the past...

Just go and try a Helix and see if it suits 'you'.

£649 is an awesfully tempting price though

We do all have the continuous improvement GAS thing it's true, I've been doing that for a good few years. If honest, cards on the table... I'm not entirely happy with the MS-3 - I gotten some good sounds from it that worked well gigging, and in terms of sound quality, for me a definite step up from the Zoom G3 I used before (don't laugh...) but I suppose two things really bug me somewhat.

1. ease of patch creation/editing/tweaking tones on the fly - it's not great, I kind of knew that and didn't think it would be a big deal, I'd still be able to get my tones programmed in and things would be fine. But they aren't - I guess I'm just not that much of a tech head, and I find I'm not really making the best use of the unit as a result. Some people can/do, but not working out for me.

2. the limitations - the loops are all in a block and have to stay together, loops can't do stereo, you can't have 6 delays of whatever type you like on at the same time, for example. Also you can only have 4 presets per bank - yes there are people doing great things with the assigns function, but again we are back to the techy stuff there - watching the vids and Helix seems just a different ball game with it's user-friendly aspect.

...and let's be honest, they're both digital units, but the Helix has way more processing power - it is at least a league higher up. Do I sound like I've already made my mind up?  

meltedbuzzbox

like everyone says I would try one for an extended period first.
I bought one to be an all in one pedal board (wasn't fussed about the amp stuff). I didn't really like anything on it compared to my pedal board.
I still use the pedal board but now I use a fly rig 5 for band practice for the lazy amp solution.

Megii

meltedbuzzbox said:

like everyone says I would try one for an extended period first.
I bought one to be an all in one pedal board (wasn't fussed about the amp stuff). I didn't really like anything on it compared to my pedal board.
I still use the pedal board but now I use a fly rig 5 for band practice for the lazy amp solution.

Thanks @meltedbuzzbox - I'm hanging fire just for the moment, with some difficulty. If I did go for it, it would kind of be on the understanding that it might not suit me, and I could be selling on at a bit of a loss.

Can I ask what the pedals on your board are that you prefer to the Helix equivalent? - just interested.

meltedbuzzbox

Megii said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

like everyone says I would try one for an extended period first.
I bought one to be an all in one pedal board (wasn't fussed about the amp stuff). I didn't really like anything on it compared to my pedal board.
I still use the pedal board but now I use a fly rig 5 for band practice for the lazy amp solution.

Thanks @meltedbuzzbox - I'm hanging fire just for the moment, with some difficulty. If I did go for it, it would kind of be on the understanding that it might not suit me, and I could be selling on at a bit of a loss.

Can I ask what the pedals on your board are that you prefer to the Helix equivalent? - just interested.

At the time I think I had ten pedals. Some of which weren't that expensive but the helix couldn't get near them.
My eventide h9 does things the helix can't so that was a huge stumbling block.
I couldn't fairly compare it's delays to my mf104m but the other digital delays I was a little disappointed with, I personally preferred the m series if I'm honest.
The drives were ok but again not as good as my pedals, I always felt there was a harsh top end treble thing going on with all the drives.
The lack of synth/filters was disappointing for me too but this may have been addressed.

I really wanted it to work as I was tired of the pedal merry go round and the whole package sounds great on paper. It just didn't work for me personally.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying one though. You have to know what works for you at the end of the day.

Megii

meltedbuzzbox said:

Megii said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

like everyone says I would try one for an extended period first.
I bought one to be an all in one pedal board (wasn't fussed about the amp stuff). I didn't really like anything on it compared to my pedal board.
I still use the pedal board but now I use a fly rig 5 for band practice for the lazy amp solution.

Thanks @meltedbuzzbox - I'm hanging fire just for the moment, with some difficulty. If I did go for it, it would kind of be on the understanding that it might not suit me, and I could be selling on at a bit of a loss.

Can I ask what the pedals on your board are that you prefer to the Helix equivalent? - just interested.

At the time I think I had ten pedals. Some of which weren't that expensive but the helix couldn't get near them.
My eventide h9 does things the helix can't so that was a huge stumbling block.
I couldn't fairly compare it's delays to my mf104m but the other digital delays I was a little disappointed with, I personally preferred the m series if I'm honest.
The drives were ok but again not as good as my pedals, I always felt there was a harsh top end treble thing going on with all the drives.
The lack of synth/filters was disappointing for me too but this may have been addressed.

I really wanted it to work as I was tired of the pedal merry go round and the whole package sounds great on paper. It just didn't work for me personally.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying one though. You have to know what works for you at the end of the day.

Thanks for that @meltedbuzzbox, that's useful information, and appreciate you taking the time, cheers!

gibsongretschfan

This IS NOT aimed at anyone but just to warn you that there’s a lot of “I couldn’t get along without helix, just didn’t sound as good as my ___________ pedalboard through my _____ amp and is why i sent it back, total disappointment” opinions from guys that you later found out only tried one for ten minutes through headphones.

Helix is really easy to get going but having owned one for nearly two years now I still feel like I’m only learning it every time I turn it on

Teetonetal

See, in contrast to @meltedbuzzbox, I think the delays are top draw, especially the analogue and space echo emulations. The vibe is good, and I find the drives voiced really well - I'm a big fan of the Ben Adrian fuzz in there.

Pitch shifting is shoddy and not as good as a pitchfork or whammy.

Everything else is perfectly serviceable and you can do a lot with the routing. 

Just get one online, try for a week and send back if it's not for you. It has to be played through your own setup to see if it will work. Also, put the newest firmware on it. Each release is an improvement in some way.

Megii

gibsongretschfan said:

This IS NOT aimed at anyone but just to warn you that there’s a lot of “I couldn’t get along without helix, just didn’t sound as good as my ___________ pedalboard through my _____ amp and is why i sent it back, total disappointment” opinions from guys that you later found out only tried one for ten minutes through headphones.

Helix is really easy to get going but having owned one for nearly two years now I still feel like I’m only learning it every time I turn it on

No worries @gibsongretschfan ; - as someone who was happy enough with the sound from built in effects on the Boss MS-3, and before that a Zoom G3, I think I'm able to put things in context. And the more information from both sides of the fence, the better really. Still very likely to buy one at this point - just waiting on a couple of things really before deciding where from. Appreciate your post, cheers

Megii

Teetonetal said:

See, in contrast to @meltedbuzzbox, I think the delays are top draw, especially the analogue and space echo emulations. The vibe is good, and I find the drives voiced really well - I'm a big fan of the Ben Adrian fuzz in there.

Pitch shifting is shoddy and not as good as a pitchfork or whammy.

Everything else is perfectly serviceable and you can do a lot with the routing. 

Just get one online, try for a week and send back if it's not for you. It has to be played through your own setup to see if it will work. Also, put the newest firmware on it. Each release is an improvement in some way.

Cheers @Teetonetal - this is pretty much my intended course of action. At the moment just seeing if I can get a price match arranged. I guess I don't use pitch shifting very much myself so that's not a make or break, and yes I had heard that the drives are very good. But of course, no bit of gear will suit everyone, and fair enough for those who've tried it and it hasn't worked out.

meltedbuzzbox

@Teetonetal do you play yours through an amp?
That's were I was most let down. Everything I have ever put through my hiwatt absolutely sparkles and sounds great but I found the helix to be quite flat, even with 7 days of tweaking.
The amp Sims were great, I did like them for recording

Teetonetal

@meltedbuzzbox no, I use monitors at home and the time's I've used it live, it's been direct. I hated it through an amp.

meltedbuzzbox

See, even with my bad experience I keep thinking about rebuying and using it purely as a recording interface.
I just don't like having gear sat there not earning it's keep and I wonder if I would do better with a bunch of vst files

Teetonetal

meltedbuzzbox said:

See, even with my bad experience I keep thinking about rebuying and using it purely as a recording interface.
I just don't like having gear sat there not earning it's keep and I wonder if I would do better with a bunch of vst files

primary use for me. I love that I can play my vsts through it, route in external fx etc. As a guitar player's hobby studio hub it rules the roost.

Megii

Thanks again for all the advice, as you probably suspected, I'm accepting the risk it won't be for me, and an order has been placed this morning, and I guess I'll see what I think.

I was a bit concerned regarding comments where it didn't work out going straight into an amp, but there are plenty of comments on the web to the effect that it can sound very good like this in place of an effects board, as long as you have a good clean amp with plenty of headroom (which I do). But I think ultimately the direction of travel for me is FRFR powered speaker(s) and/or through the PA. I'll be keeping my pedal board setup for a while anyhow, and not burning bridges too soon.