That stupid PayPal 21 day rule...

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I've been an EBay member for 12 years and PayPal for about 7 of those - I've got a fairly sizeable history of buying/selling and using PayPal, with no prior problems. However, I sold an amp last week and was paid via PayPal; the funds were immediately withheld and I was advised on both EBay and PayPal's websites that I may have to wait up to 21 days for the funds to be released to me.

The amp was collected by a friend of the buyer a day later (the buyer lives miles away) and comms were kept up to date both sides, item marked as paid/dispatched and all the rest of it.

So in theory, there is no reason why my money should be withheld by PayPal.  But according to some spiel on their website about it being a common industry practice, I apparently need to be a better/quicker seller in order to get my money quickly/the normal way.

I can't be the only one who thinks this is utter horseshit...
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  • LodiousLodious Frets: 778
    Nope, It happened to me years ago. I have not sold on ebay since. 
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  • NunogilbertoNunogilberto Frets: 1255
    edited January 3
    Lodious said:
    Nope, It happened to me years ago. I have not sold on ebay since. 
    I'm minded to do the same thing, or at least ditch PayPal - I don't see what right they have to withhold your money if the sale was straightforward and both parties are happy.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 30905
    I've been an EBay member for 12 years and PayPal for about 7 of those - I've got a fairly sizeable history of buying/selling and using PayPal, with no prior problems. However, I sold an amp last week and was paid via PayPal; the funds were immediately withheld and I was advised on both EBay and PayPal's websites that I may have to wait up to 21 days for the funds to be released to me.

    The amp was collected by a friend of the buyer a day later (the buyer lives miles away) and comms were kept up to date both sides, item marked as paid/dispatched and all the rest of it.

    So in theory, there is no reason why my money should be withheld by PayPal.  But according to some spiel on their website about it being a common industry practice, I apparently need to be a better/quicker seller in order to get my money quickly/the normal way.

    I can't be the only one who thinks this is utter horseshit...
    It's not only utter horseshit, by allowing a collection after a Paypal payment you have exposed yourself to the risk of a chargeback scam, if the buyer is dishonest. In the eyes of Ebay/Paypal, you can't prove it was delivered.

    It's going to be a long 21 days unfortunately.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • NunogilbertoNunogilberto Frets: 1255
    ICBM said:
    I've been an EBay member for 12 years and PayPal for about 7 of those - I've got a fairly sizeable history of buying/selling and using PayPal, with no prior problems. However, I sold an amp last week and was paid via PayPal; the funds were immediately withheld and I was advised on both EBay and PayPal's websites that I may have to wait up to 21 days for the funds to be released to me.

    The amp was collected by a friend of the buyer a day later (the buyer lives miles away) and comms were kept up to date both sides, item marked as paid/dispatched and all the rest of it.

    So in theory, there is no reason why my money should be withheld by PayPal.  But according to some spiel on their website about it being a common industry practice, I apparently need to be a better/quicker seller in order to get my money quickly/the normal way.

    I can't be the only one who thinks this is utter horseshit...
    It's not only utter horseshit, by allowing a collection after a Paypal payment you have exposed yourself to the risk of a chargeback scam, if the buyer is dishonest. In the eyes of Ebay/Paypal, you can't prove it was delivered.

    It's going to be a long 21 days unfortunately.
    Yes I'm aware of that also. I'll be speaking to PayPal tomorrow to see if they can speed the process up in some way, but after that, I'm done with them.
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  • pete624000pete624000 Frets: 42
    I had exactly the same thing myself with paypal10 yrs ago, got my money in the end, never used them or ebay since. Bunch of greedy tossers.
    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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  • jellyrolljellyroll Frets: 2090
    I regularly buy bits online with Paypal (savers handing over debit card details)  and without asking for it I'm usually given 14+ days credit.

    So, I guess their model is to offer credit to buyers - to tempt people who want credit away from credit cards - funding it by withholding  sellers' cash.
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  • LegionreturnsLegionreturns Frets: 4283
    They usually do this when the buyer doesn't have the history. In this case the buyer should be waiting to get the amp until funds are cleared. It's like paying by cheque.

    My Trading Feedback    |    You Bring The Band

    Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you
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  • m_cm_c Frets: 338
    The funds will normally be released a couple days after you've received positive feedback for the sale.

    For larger value items, it's often worth considering an escrow service, where the buyer sends the money to a middle man, and the middle man then holds on to the money until the buyer acknowledges the goods have been received. The big benefit is, is if there is any dispute, the middleman holds on to the money until the buyer and seller come to some kind of agreement. The only person outside the buyer/seller who could make a decision on the funds, is a court.

    I've personally used transpact.com a couple times when selling machinery, and it's been a pretty smooth process. You create an agreement, buyer accepts it (you can to and fro over terms until you're both happy), buyer sends money to transpact, you send the goods, once the buyer is happy, transpact release the funds to you.
    Also on big value items, it's far cheaper than paypal.
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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 863
    Mmm...I try and avoid PP where possible, but its tricky if you want to continue with Ebay sales, plus when is goes wrong your own your own as I discovered    


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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 1566
    Collection + PayPal = never ever. Seller is an open goal for scammers that way.

    If I ever sell anything and the buyer wants to collect, it's gotta be cash or pre-paid bank transfer that I can verify.
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  • HHwarnerHHwarner Frets: 54
    The only time I accept PayPal where the buyer is collecting is via PayPal friends and family ;-)
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 5096
    Never happened to me so does it only affect items that paid for by Paypal and then collected? I never do paypal and collection because of the scam, but equally I cannot imagine letting anything go without seeing the funds in my account.
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  • John_PJohn_P Frets: 1526
    Chalky said:
    Never happened to me so does it only affect items that paid for by Paypal and then collected? I never do paypal and collection because of the scam, but equally I cannot imagine letting anything go without seeing the funds in my account.
    If people pay with regular PayPal eg from the eBay sale then they can claim it wasn’t posted and PayPal will take the money back from your account unless you can give them a tracking number for signed delivery.   

    Collection means cash, bank transfer or PayPal gift only.  
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  • NunogilbertoNunogilberto Frets: 1255
    jellyroll said:
    I regularly buy bits online with Paypal (savers handing over debit card details)  and without asking for it I'm usually given 14+ days credit.

    So, I guess their model is to offer credit to buyers - to tempt people who want credit away from credit cards - funding it by withholding  sellers' cash.
    I think you may be right there - it's not the first time I've read this online.

    I tried calling them today to see if they could speed up the process, but was given the usual automated claptrap about being in a big queue, and I was told to say a few words about what it was I wanted to speak to them about. Craftily, it only led to a few sentences of automated advice about pending payments (or whatever you wanted to know about) but it didn't actually hold you in a queue; just repeated the advice or made you go back to the main advice menu. A typical big company ploy to avoid having to speak to people and make it harder for them to be contacted directly.

    I looked into emailing a complaint but it can apparently take 4 weeks to be looked into, and if their 21 day estimate is correct I'll have the money before then. I'll just have to suck it up and wait for the money as per this ridiculous policy.

    Either way, this has left a very sour taste and once I have the money, I'll be severing all ties with PayPal.

    I've taken a chance on the PayPal/collection thing I know, but up to now the buyer has been fairly straight with good comms and has said he's happy with the amp. Apart from that I needed the money and was under the impression the funds would have reached me instantly as per past transactions.

    Ah well, you live, you learn I guess.
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 2581
    m_c said:
    The funds will normally be released a couple days after you've received positive feedback for the sale.

    For larger value items, it's often worth considering an escrow service, where the buyer sends the money to a middle man, and the middle man then holds on to the money until the buyer acknowledges the goods have been received. The big benefit is, is if there is any dispute, the middleman holds on to the money until the buyer and seller come to some kind of agreement. The only person outside the buyer/seller who could make a decision on the funds, is a court.

    I've personally used transpact.com a couple times when selling machinery, and it's been a pretty smooth process. You create an agreement, buyer accepts it (you can to and fro over terms until you're both happy), buyer sends money to transpact, you send the goods, once the buyer is happy, transpact release the funds to you.
    Also on big value items, it's far cheaper than paypal.
    This is a great solution. Dunno why I've never heard about it before.
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 5638
    edited January 12
    Did the buyer collect? I.e you have no proof of postage? I hope for your sake that the buyer doesn't claim for no amp delivered.

    If he does you will lose both money and amp.
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  • NunogilbertoNunogilberto Frets: 1255
    Did the buyer collect? I.e you have no proof of postage? I hope for your sake that the buyer doesn't claim for no amp delivered.

    If he does you will lose both money and amp.
    The buyer has been genuine enough up to now. There's a week left until PayPal are supposed to let me have the money.

    We'll see.
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  • fandangofandango Frets: 958
    m_c said:
    The funds will normally be released a couple days after you've received positive feedback for the sale.

    For larger value items, it's often worth considering an escrow service, where the buyer sends the money to a middle man, and the middle man then holds on to the money until the buyer acknowledges the goods have been received. The big benefit is, is if there is any dispute, the middleman holds on to the money until the buyer and seller come to some kind of agreement. The only person outside the buyer/seller who could make a decision on the funds, is a court.

    I've personally used transpact.com a couple times when selling machinery, and it's been a pretty smooth process. You create an agreement, buyer accepts it (you can to and fro over terms until you're both happy), buyer sends money to transpact, you send the goods, once the buyer is happy, transpact release the funds to you.
    Also on big value items, it's far cheaper than paypal.
    Would i be correct in suggesting that Escrow still open to fraud if the buyer doesnt play ball?
    TANSTAAFL
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