Linux for noobs

monquixote

Flink_Poyd said:

It's a shame Linux never breaks through to the mainstream. there's usually  a "is this the year for Linux?" buzz that goes off for a bit then it slips away again. 
 

Those type of debates miss the point.

Android Tablets and Phones are Linux machines. Chromebooks are Linux machines. Mac, iPhones and iPads are Unix machines. Your smart TV/PVR/Kodi box is a Linux machine. The PS4 is a Linux machine. The NES and SNES Minis are Linux machines.

You may not know they are Linux because they have achieved their aim of being usable without being exposed to the command line

The only things that aren't Linux machines are essentially now the XBox and Windows 10 and even Windows 10 now optionally includes Linux as it's now becoming essential for developers to get work done.

Desktop PCs are rapidly becoming something that's largely only of interest to software developers who will spend all their time at the command line anyway ( Use a Mac, but I have 4 terminals open at the moment)

Emp_Fab

True, but the amount of time spent reverting a Windows box back to a working state is usually a tiny fraction of the time spent trying to get a Linux box to work as you want in the first place!

monquixote

Emp_Fab said:

True, but the amount of time spent reverting a Windows box back to a working state is usually a tiny fraction of the time spent trying to get a Linux box to work as you want in the first place!

Not sure I agree with that.

I've got a Windows 7 laptop that's completely fucked due to a Windows update and because I don't have the install media or licence key it's now a paperweight unless I put more effort into it than I can be bothered to invest reinstalling it all and getting it set up. I've had multiple experiences along those lines.
 
Never had a problem with getting Ubuntu working, but then I do understand the command line. To my mind switching to a Linux desktop and then complaining that you have to use the command line and it's doesn't work properly is a bit like switching to a motorbike, but refusing to use the engine and then complaining it's not as fast as your pedal bike. The command line is the point, that's why Microsoft have just added the Linux command line to Windows.

Flink_Poyd

monquixote said:

Flink_Poyd said:

It's a shame Linux never breaks through to the mainstream. there's usually  a "is this the year for Linux?" buzz that goes off for a bit then it slips away again. 
 

Those type of debates miss the point.

Android Tablets and Phones are Linux machines. Chromebooks are Linux machines. Mac, iPhones and iPads are Unix machines. Your smart TV/PVR/Kodi box is a Linux machine. The PS4 is a Linux machine. The NES and SNES Minis are Linux machines.

You may not know they are Linux because they have achieved their aim of being usable without being exposed to the command line

The only things that aren't Linux machines are essentially now the XBox and Windows 10 and even Windows 10 now optionally includes Linux as it's now becoming essential for developers to get work done.

Desktop PCs are rapidly becoming something that's largely only of interest to software developers who will spend all their time at the command line anyway ( Use a Mac, but I have 4 terminals open at the moment)

As an OS replacement for your average PC Win/Mac etc was my point. 

monquixote

Flink_Poyd said:As an OS replacement for your average PC Win/Mac etc was my point. 

I'd argue that the Chromebook / iPad does that for 90% of consumers these days.

My wife has had a Chromebook for the last couple of years and has never been happier, or required less support from me.

I don't think I'd bother trying to do serious AV stuff on Linux, but that's not an issue for most users.

Adam_MD

Jez6345789 said:

also from google there  are people who have got line 6 toneports and stuff working of that era.

I've been looking and can't find anyone who got their UX2 fully working in Linux just as a device to play audio rather than record through it.  I was hoping there would be a fully working driver which would get me going with no real hassle.  if I was just going to web browse and design pedal graphics I'd switch but having to buy a new audio interface to get something which will work is a dealbreaker when I like the UX2.  

I think I will try a few distros on a pen drive though and if I get it working via one of those I can make the switch I do really like the idea of a streamlined machine with just the stuff on it I actually want and use.

prowla

I have Windows machines running Linux in VMs and Linux machines running Windows in VMs.

I've also got a Mac, but it doesn't run VMware so well.

The good thing about VMs is that you can create little "appliance" VMs to do specific tasks' I've even got a couple of old XP ones to run legacy sotware.

Phil_aka_Pip

monquixote said:

You may not know they are Linux because they have achieved their aim of being usable without being exposed to the command line

For me, Linux is usable simply because of the shell. Try piping the o/p of one tool to the i/p of another without it. Or even try getting Windoze Explorer to cp XYZ*v1.c ../v1archive. I wouldn't know how to run make without the shell. Shell is wonderful!

digitalscream

Adam_MD said:

Jez6345789 said:

also from google there  are people who have got line 6 toneports and stuff working of that era.

I've been looking and can't find anyone who got their UX2 fully working in Linux just as a device to play audio rather than record through it.  I was hoping there would be a fully working driver which would get me going with no real hassle.  if I was just going to web browse and design pedal graphics I'd switch but having to buy a new audio interface to get something which will work is a dealbreaker when I like the UX2.  

I think I will try a few distros on a pen drive though and if I get it working via one of those I can make the switch I do really like the idea of a streamlined machine with just the stuff on it I actually want and use.

I use a Komplete Audio 6 interface, along with the Linux version of Reaper (yes, there is such a thing), in which I run BFD3, Helix Native and a whole bunch of other stuff people tell you can't work under Linux. I believe all the current Behringer interfaces work fine, as do most DICE-II based Firewire interfaces (like the TC Impact Twin), most of the Scarlett range, most Roland models, the Edirol stuff...at this point, in terms of the mainstream interfaces you can buy new, the list of devices which work is probably longer than the list of the ones that don't (note: not a scientific measure).

Prior to that, I had the Windows version of Reaper working just fine. I also use Harrison Mixbus...which, believe it or not, is based on the open source Ardour DAW.

I just rebuilt my laptop with Ubuntu, and for shits and giggles - prompted by this thread - I decided to do it all using the GUI and no command line stuff (except my dev tools, which are based in the command line and don't really count). Took about an hour and a half to do the lot, with no "indecipherable command line" stuff. Admittedly, it would've been done in about an hour if I'd used the command line, but still...contrast that with the amount of time it'd take you to install any given version of Windows with all the service packs, updates and drivers etc - last time I did it, it was about 7 hours after all the reboots; in most Linux distros, that's all pretty much automatic. It also detected our wireless printers and automatically installed them, as well as the various media devices we've got kicking around the house (including the TV).

Adam_MD

How did you install your line 6 interface @digitalscream?  I’d be quite happy using Reaper if I can get my UX2 to work.  

digitalscream

Adam_MD said:

How did you install your line 6 interface @digitalscream?  I’d be quite happy using Reaper if I can get my UX2 to work.  

Nooo...I don't have a Line 6 interface As I said, I use a Komplete Audio 6. I probably quoted your post in error, just talking about interfaces.

What is it you like about the UX2? If it's the software that comes with it, then you won't get that on Linux anyway. However, looking at the kernel source code, it seems as though the Line 6 drivers for all PODs, Toneports and Variax devices were updated 3 months ago - no idea what the state of them is, but there's a good chance that it'll be plug 'n' play with an up-to-date version of Linux.

Adam_MD

digitalscream said:

Adam_MD said:

How did you install your line 6 interface @digitalscream?  I’d be quite happy using Reaper if I can get my UX2 to work.  

Nooo...I don't have a Line 6 interface As I said, I use a Komplete Audio 6. I probably quoted your post in error, just talking about interfaces.

What is it you like about the UX2? If it's the software that comes with it, then you won't get that on Linux anyway. However, looking at the kernel source code, it seems as though the Line 6 drivers for all PODs, Toneports and Variax devices were updated 3 months ago - no idea what the state of them is, but there's a good chance that it'll be plug 'n' play with an up-to-date version of Linux.

Mostly because I have it and don’t want to buy a different one.  

digitalscream

Adam_MD said:

digitalscream said:

Adam_MD said:

How did you install your line 6 interface @digitalscream?  I’d be quite happy using Reaper if I can get my UX2 to work.  

Nooo...I don't have a Line 6 interface As I said, I use a Komplete Audio 6. I probably quoted your post in error, just talking about interfaces.

What is it you like about the UX2? If it's the software that comes with it, then you won't get that on Linux anyway. However, looking at the kernel source code, it seems as though the Line 6 drivers for all PODs, Toneports and Variax devices were updated 3 months ago - no idea what the state of them is, but there's a good chance that it'll be plug 'n' play with an up-to-date version of Linux.

Mostly because I have it and don’t want to buy a different one.  

In that case, as I said...you might want to try the latest version of any of the main distros. Unless, of course, you've already tried that.

If that doesn't work, then you'll probably just have to accept that you're not going to be using Linux any time soon I'm afraid...with the best will in the world, there's little mileage in folk spending time developing drivers for very old hardware in a niche market More modern interfaces are designed to be class-compliant, meaning that they work with a well-supported standard and thus will work with (almost) any device.

That said, if you ever feel a need to upgrade, or your UX2 stops working, I can give you some pointers on stuff that'll work within almost any budget.

Jez6345789

 I think the other issue might be the UX2 being fairly old and Line6 getting rationalised by Yamaha.

Jez6345789

Have you looked into it this seems to talk about a Linux driver back in 2009 early version. And hacks to get it working with other interfaces.


https://line6.com/supportarchivenew/thread/4031/

Jez6345789

Or this its all out there somewhere for Linux just a few hours of compiling and weekend in the command line and you will be good to go lol

https://sourceforge.net/p/line6linux/code/HEAD/tree/

darthed1981

Adam_MD said:

And I think I’ve run into a problem already.  I use a Line 6 UX2 as an interface I don’t use the line 6 software but do use their driver and it doesn’t look like there’s one available for Linux.  

It looks like Linux will recognise it for playback but not to use the xlr, 6.35mm inputs etc.  

Bugger 

You could just set up a dual boot see how often you actually boot into Windows?

Emp_Fab

monquixote said:

Emp_Fab said:

True, but the amount of time spent reverting a Windows box back to a working state is usually a tiny fraction of the time spent trying to get a Linux box to work as you want in the first place!

Not sure I agree with that.

I've got a Windows 7 laptop that's completely fucked due to a Windows update and because I don't have the install media or licence key it's now a paperweight unless I put more effort into it than I can be bothered to invest reinstalling it all and getting it set up. I've had multiple experiences along those lines.
 
Never had a problem with getting Ubuntu working, but then I do understand the command line. To my mind switching to a Linux desktop and then complaining that you have to use the command line and it's doesn't work properly is a bit like switching to a motorbike, but refusing to use the engine and then complaining it's not as fast as your pedal bike. The command line is the point, that's why Microsoft have just added the Linux command line to Windows.

You don't need either to run System Restore.  You could have your laptop working in minutes.  Failing that, you could just reimage it from the backup image you have.

Are you saying that switching to Linux as a user that doesn't want to use the CLI is pointless then ?

digitalscream

Emp_Fab said:

monquixote said:

Emp_Fab said:

True, but the amount of time spent reverting a Windows box back to a working state is usually a tiny fraction of the time spent trying to get a Linux box to work as you want in the first place!

Not sure I agree with that.

I've got a Windows 7 laptop that's completely fucked due to a Windows update and because I don't have the install media or licence key it's now a paperweight unless I put more effort into it than I can be bothered to invest reinstalling it all and getting it set up. I've had multiple experiences along those lines.
 
Never had a problem with getting Ubuntu working, but then I do understand the command line. To my mind switching to a Linux desktop and then complaining that you have to use the command line and it's doesn't work properly is a bit like switching to a motorbike, but refusing to use the engine and then complaining it's not as fast as your pedal bike. The command line is the point, that's why Microsoft have just added the Linux command line to Windows.

You don't need either to run System Restore.  You could have your laptop working in minutes.  Failing that, you could just reimage it from the backup image you have.

Are you saying that switching to Linux as a user that doesn't want to use the CLI is pointless then ?

No, he's saying that the CLI is actually a positive thing if you're willing to use it, because it lets you get stuff done quicker than you ever could with a GUI (any GUI).

olafgarten

digitalscream said:

Adam_MD said:

Jez6345789 said:

also from google there  are people who have got line 6 toneports and stuff working of that era.

I've been looking and can't find anyone who got their UX2 fully working in Linux just as a device to play audio rather than record through it.  I was hoping there would be a fully working driver which would get me going with no real hassle.  if I was just going to web browse and design pedal graphics I'd switch but having to buy a new audio interface to get something which will work is a dealbreaker when I like the UX2.  

I think I will try a few distros on a pen drive though and if I get it working via one of those I can make the switch I do really like the idea of a streamlined machine with just the stuff on it I actually want and use.

I use a Komplete Audio 6 interface, along with the Linux version of Reaper (yes, there is such a thing), in which I run BFD3, Helix Native and a whole bunch of other stuff people tell you can't work under Linux. I believe all the current Behringer interfaces work fine, as do most DICE-II based Firewire interfaces (like the TC Impact Twin), most of the Scarlett range, most Roland models, the Edirol stuff...at this point, in terms of the mainstream interfaces you can buy new, the list of devices which work is probably longer than the list of the ones that don't (note: not a scientific measure).

Prior to that, I had the Windows version of Reaper working just fine. I also use Harrison Mixbus...which, believe it or not, is based on the open source Ardour DAW.

I just rebuilt my laptop with Ubuntu, and for shits and giggles - prompted by this thread - I decided to do it all using the GUI and no command line stuff (except my dev tools, which are based in the command line and don't really count). Took about an hour and a half to do the lot, with no "indecipherable command line" stuff. Admittedly, it would've been done in about an hour if I'd used the command line, but still...contrast that with the amount of time it'd take you to install any given version of Windows with all the service packs, updates and drivers etc - last time I did it, it was about 7 hours after all the reboots; in most Linux distros, that's all pretty much automatic. It also detected our wireless printers and automatically installed them, as well as the various media devices we've got kicking around the house (including the TV).

Windows has sorted out the Installation time, it takes less than an hour on any decent laptop. 

Continuing on from the Linux being more stable argument, it isn't significantly more stable than Windows, yes I have had an automatic Windows update break things, but I've had the same with manual updates on Linux. The issue with stability isn't with Windows itself, just look at Windows Server which is pretty much rock solid.

The real issue is that it is being used as a Desktop OS where software is being installed and changed a lot and users aren't trained to use everything 100% correctly. Linux has the same issues when used on the Desktop

I like Linux and use it a lot for development work, but a lot of the arguments for it are either outdated or just plain incorrect.

For most of the things I do, the Windows Subsystem for Linux works fine, I've even set mine up to let me run GUI programs in it.