Identifying 70s DiMarzios?

clarkefan

sweepy said:

EVH Old No1 had a PAF from an old 335 and no I didn’t jknow about his use of MM pickups

That subject is about as deep a rabbit hole as there is to go down, it has been debated endlessly for many years on the internet.  All sorts of experts, including some of his old friends who were there... man it goes on and on.

He seems to have used a different pickup every 5 mins in that guitar back then.

imalrightjack

Pictures! 

https://imgur.com/a/aYFYF

Funkfingers

imalrightjack said:
three coloured cables and a shield ... 8.5k each 

A common DiMarzio practice in the Seventies and early Eighties. 

8.5k Ohms is in the ballpark for a Super 2. Typically, it would be the neck/Rhythm position partner to a Super Distortion or Dual Sound in the bridge/Treble position.

SteveRobinson said:

The baseplates are not stamped. I assumed the baseplates had been replaced as they bobbins were loose and maple spacers missing. 

DiMarzio Super Distortion and Dual Sound (same thing, only with more output conductors) humbuckers do not have maple spacers. Instead, the bobbins rest on stubby plastic "feet". For obvious reasons, the height of these should be the same as the thickness of the bar magnet(s). 

In the OP's Imgur photos, the edge-on photograph of the neck/Rhythm position pickup clearly shows a double thickness magnet. 

I associate coil start/finish connections of the type seen in the photographs with old MIJ and MIK pickups. i.e. Höhner Arbor series.

webrthomson

Here are some pictures of a 70's Dimarzio super distortion for comparison:

WezV

webrthomson said:

Here are some pictures of a 70's Dimarzio super distortion for comparison:

You sure that’s 70’s?  Have the feet been reshaped?

Philly_Q

sweepy said:

Velvet Hammer, bloody hell thats a blast from the past, iirc Holdsworth used them for awhile 

And Joan Jett - still has one in her old Melody Maker.

WezV

THis is mine


this is the earlier stamp

WezV

just found a brief guide to dating them here
http://www.dimarzioforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=3195.0

"Square feet ended somewhere in 1980, the slugs changed around that time too, from slightly concave to flat. The slugs would then undergo another further change to the machined and polished type.

Braided wire is used most often, but it can be covered in heatshrink tubing every now and then. 2 conductor black wire is used a lot too.

1975 PAFs had no logo on the baseplate

1976 brought about the first logo on the baseplate with simply "DIMARZIO PICKUPS" etched in the brass.

Sometime in 1977, the logo changed to the present day type "DIMARZIO PICKUPs MADE IN THE U.S.A."

Most of these pre 1977 PAFs are tall with long legs, many still around today have been modded.

Larry didn't tinker with the design much until the mid eighties... the pre 1984 models are some of the best PAF style pickups ever made."

webrthomson

WezV said:

just found a brief guide to dating them here
http://www.dimarzioforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=3195.0

"Square feet ended somewhere in 1980, the slugs changed around that time too, from slightly concave to flat. The slugs would then undergo another further change to the machined and polished type.

Braided wire is used most often, but it can be covered in heatshrink tubing every now and then. 2 conductor black wire is used a lot too.

1975 PAFs had no logo on the baseplate

1976 brought about the first logo on the baseplate with simply "DIMARZIO PICKUPS" etched in the brass.

Sometime in 1977, the logo changed to the present day type "DIMARZIO PICKUPs MADE IN THE U.S.A."

Most of these pre 1977 PAFs are tall with long legs, many still around today have been modded.

Larry didn't tinker with the design much until the mid eighties... the pre 1984 models are some of the best PAF style pickups ever made."

Interesting - thanks for that Wez - so 80's SD then

WezV

webrthomson said:

Interesting - thanks for that Wez - so 80's SD then

yeah, but it doesn't affect much anyway.   

The early ones obviously have a reputation for being the best because that's the way guitar lore works, but even they are not really worth more than £50 a pop..   yours still looks early so will be the same as a square footed model, that feature just makes early ones easy to spot.

They are better than the later versions of the design.   or at least the ones they were making last time i tried a new version, it might be 15 years ago

CasperCaster

The info quoted from the Dimarzio forum is broadly right, though some might suggest a year or two different for some features (e.g. square feet typically thought to exist up to the end of 81, then replaced by triangular feet). Super Distortions and Dual Sounds follow the same time lines as the PAF's, though features like shape of the slugs are obviously irrelevant. Short legs come in around the same time as the branding stamp on the bottom of the pickups, approximately in 77. Bobbins have three holes until early to mid nineties then only two holes. Bobbins generally secured with slot head screws. The wiring on the Dual Sounds isn't like a lot of other pickups from the late seventies/ early eighties, as they are principally designed to be used series or parallel rather than split (Dimarzio pushed the parallel option and played down the split option). The wiring is effectively 4-wire, but the braided shield connects to the start of the first coil and the baseplate (modern 4-wire schemes separate these). So for early Dual Sounds the braid is earth/Start of first coil, Clear is end of first coil. Black is Start of 2nd coil (join Clear+Black for series), Red is hot. The bare braided cable on the Dimarzios is thicker than on the Mighty Mite Screamers/1300 model. Also, Dimarzio's braided cable is also usually covered in a weird plastic sheath coloured either black, grey/blue or yellow (latter now often darkened to tan), which makes it thicker still.

The Mighty Mite 1300/Screamer is superficially similar to a Super Distortion/ Dual Sound but key differences are 'MIGHTY MITE MFG.' stamped in the baseplate, generally Phillips screws securing the bobbins, bobbins with no holes on top, but faint circular molding marks (about 2mm diameter) between the E/A and B/E pole piece positions (i.e. where two of the three bobbin holes would typically be located). As noted the shielded cable is not as substantial as that of Dual Sounds of the period, and comprises shield plus black, white and red wires. Shield goes to baseplate alone, Black is earth, White is hot, Red connects to the internal series connection between the coils to allow the coils to be split - this scheme of providing a single wire for coil splitting is quite common amongst other pickups of the era.

imalrightjack

Wow, @CasperCaster ;

Do these appear to be either MM or DM?

https://imgur.com/a/aYFYF

impmann

They look like Double Eagles to me - that's exactly the same as the neck pickup in my first proper guitar. As I say, I bought the pickup in the mid 80s new from Rokas on Denmark Street. All the MM pickups I've seen/owned had the makers name stamped into the bases.

CasperCaster

I don't have a Double Eagle for comparison, but do remember them from that period.

Your pickup certainly isn't a Dimarzio as the bobbins and wiring are wrong (the series link is clearly visible in the third picture, and possibly the tap wire going from the left hand side of the series link).

If its in original condition then it also isn't a Mighty Mite, since the baseplate is wrong (I'd also be surprised if both pickups needed to have their baseplates replaced). 

That leaves other manufacturers from that period. I'll defer to the greater experience of @impmann and suggest that on the balance of probability it's a Double Eagle, or perhaps another manufacturer from that period that we haven't considered.

normula1

WezV said:

WezV said:

there were a few makers doing similar at the time, brain says Schaller are another possibility but I don’t totally trust that memory

i think it was gotoh i was thinking of, but a quick search says there super distortion style was 11k and also have holes in the bobbins

I had one of the Schaller SD / Dual Sound types until the bobbins lost in a fight with some hot wax. I've still got the baseplate and polepieces somewhere. 

Sarge

100% Mighty Mite if comparing it to my MM1400, ignore the replacement baseplate, the original bust and is screwed, sans legs, onto the brass plate
https://photos.app.goo.gl/E0eUFQjBllf6VpC83

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ruDxKgWkmRnapitD3

Sarge

damn rotation didn't save! 

Clashman

If this is a pick up thread phone me on 121211222333445556667778889999

imalrightjack

@Sarge It definitely looks like a Mighty Mite to me. Matches the output too. 

Unfortunately, despite sounding wonderful at lower gain levels, at volume with the drive pushed the pickups squeal horribly. Not wax potted or something? 

One more question: how do I work out what magnet/ceramic is in the pickups? As I've fallen in love with the guitar and its sound, I will now (if this is going to be difficult to remedy) buy a replacement set with similar output. 

imalrightjack

PS am I right in saying these are ceramic as the magnet is black?

https://m.imgur.com/a/aYFYF