Need someone good with figures

Lestratcaster

Ok, so I need someone good with numbers and money. I have had a request from a parent to do lessons for both sons at their house, and as I've not been in this scenario before its tricky for me to work out the right fee.

Normally I charge in monthly blocks of 4 (4 x 1 hour lessons per week) for lessons at mine. If I have to travel I put a £10 fee per lesson (£40) to cover fuel, travel time, income lost by travelling and setup/pack down time. E.g if the lesson starts at 4 I come at 3:45pm to lug amps, monitors and music stand in, and very often the room I need to teach is either t the back of the house, upstairs or some other place other than by the door so it always takes time to get in there.)

The parent has asked if I can discount for siblings, but I am just thinking of costs and time to me, after all its more prep material for another person.

I need to make sure I charge sufficiently as its a large proportion of time I'm out of my house that could have been used for teaching someone. 1 son wants 30 minutes and the other I feel should have an hour.

Anyone good with the maths here cos I need to get this right.

maltingsaudio

Your fixed costs are covered by the First pupil,so your £50 x4  gets you to the house and set up, in my mind regardless of how many your teaching. So for second pupil its just your time you need to charge for.

Lestratcaster

"Fixed costs" meaning including travel or just a normal cost if doing lessons at mine? 

Say the parent wants lessons for the older son (13 years) at 4pm for 1 hour, and the younger one (8 years) at 5pm but for 30 minutes.

I should charge the 13 year old for what it'd be for 4 lessons plus travel, then the younger one 4 x 30 minutes without travel?

Guitar_Slinger

Looking at what you've posted quickly, would teaching the boys during the same visit mean the siblings discount will be not charging another £10 fee per lesson? Maybe phrased differently to the parents, saying you've knocked some money off...

Phil_aka_Pip

If you can't insist they travel to your place, then it would seem reasonable to charge each for his lesson time then add the travel + setup/cleardown.

Lestratcaster

Guitar_Slinger said:

Looking at what you've posted quickly, would teaching the boys during the same visit mean the siblings discount will be not charging another £10 fee per lesson? Maybe phrased differently to the parents, saying you've knocked some money off...

In travel fees? If I was there for 2 hours including time aside the hour I would do the fee for 2 x 1 hourly students at my place as that's what I'd get if I had 2 students between 4-6pm at mine.

maltingsaudio

Lestratcaster said:

"Fixed costs" meaning including travel or just a normal cost if doing lessons at mine? 

Say the parent wants lessons for the older son (13 years) at 4pm for 1 hour, and the younger one (8 years) at 5pm but for 30 minutes.

I should charge the 13 year old for what it'd be for 4 lessons plus travel, then the younger one 4 x 30 minutes without travel?

Fixed cost is what it costs you to get to the lesson set up give it and get home which you have said is £40 for the lesson   and 

"I put a £10 fee per lesson (£40) to cover fuel, travel time, income lost by travelling and setup/pack down time." It would be churlish to charge this twice to teach the second pupil

Lestratcaster

Ah so its the travel fee for the first lesson that covers the time for the additional student?

Sporky

I would look at it this way:

You are teaching for one and a half hours per session, for which you would normally charge £60 x 4 = £240.

You are travelling once per session, so that's £40 for for teaching sessions. Total £280.

munckee

The other thing to consider is if you start not charging time set-up etc for one of them and one quits are the parents going to wear a price increase for the other so make sure you set it at a rate you are comfortable with for one.  You could say price is £40 per block for child one £20 per block for child 2 plus £40 per block travel expenses regardless of one or two children to ensure you can still charge enough?

Edit assuming £10 per hour, I think from other posts you charge £20 per hour so charge £80 per block child one, £40 per block child 2 plus £40 travel for the block regardless of how many

stickyfiddle

Maltings has it right, but i'm not sure you're quite following him. 

Normally you charge X for a hour-long single lesson as your place, so that's your basic lesson price without any travel (ie your time during the lesson and for prep and expertise). 

Your cost for travel & setup is 10, so if you have to travel, you charge X + 10 to cover travel & setup costs. 

If you travel and do 2 identical lessons you should charge 2X + 10, since you're not doing any extra travel or setup. 

In this case you're actually looking at 1.5X+10 since one student only needs half an hour. 
 

maltingsaudio

Lestratcaster said:

Ah so its the travel fee for the first lesson that covers the time for the additional student?

No the travel fee covers getting to the lesson and setting up, they then pay you to teach their kids at £40 per hour per kid. If kid no 2 only needs half an hour then its half of £40 ie £20

Lestratcaster

Sorry I'm getting a bit lost here. Let's use some figures to put it into context.

Let's say its a £120 for 4 x monthly lessons (£30 per lesson). I actually charge more than this but let's keep it somple.

To travel its £160 for 4 x monthly lessons with that £10 travel fee per lesson making it an additional £40.

With the scenario with the siblings, if the 2nd one wants 30 minutes I'd do it normally for £80 (£20 x 4 lessons).

So would I add the £80 onto the £160 making it £240?

Guitar_Slinger

Maureen me love, it's getting a bit busy in this thread.  Now, you gave me a tenner? 

Sporky

Lestratcaster said:

Sorry I'm getting a bit lost here. Let's use some figures to put it into context.

Let's say its a £120 for 4 x monthly lessons (£30 per lesson). I actually charge more than this but let's keep it somple.

To travel its £160 for 4 x monthly lessons with that £10 travel fee per lesson making it £40.

With scenario with the siblings, if the 2nd one wants 30 minutes I'd do it normally for £90 (£18 x 4 lessons).

So would I add the £90 onto the £160 making it £250?

Yes, though originally you said it was £40 per lesson?

Lestratcaster

No the £40 is implying £10 added on to the 4 monthly lesson fee.

£120 is the monthly fee, so I add £10 x 4 to each one.

Sporky

Gotcha.

Then I believe your numbers make sense there. You charge a bit more for a half hour lesson than for half of an hour's lesson too (not unreasonable).

I'd see it that you've already travelled to do the "first" lesson, so no need to charge travel for the second one. It's travel per trip that way.

munckee

My point was if older brother quits they may still expect the same price for younger brother so make clear the travel cost applies whichever child you are teaching, regardless of the amounts involved.

Lestratcaster

munckee said:

My point was if older brother quits they may still expect the same price for younger brother so make clear the travel cost applies whichever child you are teaching, regardless of the amounts involved.

This is the other tricky thing, if one doesn't make their lesson that week then I still need the full fee for both.

munckee

Lestratcaster said:

munckee said:

My point was if older brother quits they may still expect the same price for younger brother so make clear the travel cost applies whichever child you are teaching, regardless of the amounts involved.

This is the other tricky thing, if one doesn't make their lesson that week then I still need the full fee for both.

Any decent teacher will charge them the full rate even if "Johnny" can't be bothered and pretends he has flu, tell them the price, that it stands for missed lessons (I know you normally do this anyway) and hold the line, just make it clear that even if "Johnny" decides guitar's aren't cool anymore you will then be charging the travel fee for "Ravinder" 

Phil_aka_Pip

Lestratcaster said:

munckee said:

My point was if older brother quits they may still expect the same price for younger brother so make clear the travel cost applies whichever child you are teaching, regardless of the amounts involved.

This is the other tricky thing, if one doesn't make their lesson that week then I still need the full fee for both.

You do, and your invoice should be itemised to show exactly what they're paying for: lesson fees + fixed costs. If they wish to view it as sharing the fixed cost between pupils that's up to them but regardless of how many pupils you teach the fixed cost is the same.