MIJ Les Pauls/SG/ES

rico

Having been tempted by some of the recent NGD threads, I am very interested in possibly acquiring a MIJ LP (or even SG or semi) but there seems a plethora of different manufacturers and models. I would like, if possible, a simple run-down of the models that are deemed the most desirable and what to avoid.

Calling @ellwood @Strangefan @HarrySeven !

antifash

My beaten Burny is killer and up for sale for not a lot of dosh chap. Mightn’t go with your white axes tho...

Strangefan

Gosh where to start! It's easier to say what to avoid!  Greco are what I know :The Greco super reals are the high end and as close to a Les paul as you need,   as are the eg 75s the higher the number the better usually.

Earlier 70s ones have pancake bodies and sometime bent tops, so if I where you I would go for 1980 to 90, if a Greco doesn't have a serial it usually means it's one of two things, it was made by Tokai (Japan) or Cort (Korea) the tokai ones are high end,  and Cort lower end, you can tell by the following:
Korean : 
5 piece neck including headstock scarf joint and seperate heel. 
Black shielding paint, 
Cor tek pots, 
Long tennon 
Lower quality mahogany /maple, 
Cheaper Korean pickups with thin plastic wiring 

Japan: 
No scarf joint just headstock wings, 
Square router holes in the pickup cavity 
Japanese pots 
Stamped model number in neck pickup cavity
Short square tennon
Dry z /double trick etc pickups 
With metal braided wires

Nothing s ever rock solid tho! 

Skipped

I think the Epiphone Elite/Elitist Es-335 is a great guitar that does not require any upgrades. IMO.
(I don't think Gibson ever actually confirmed it  but I am pretty sure the USA made pickups are 57 Classics).

If you can find one....

Does anyone remember the first run of the Elite range being suddenly "remaindered" for no particular reason?
Maybe it was the problem with the name (another company was using "Elite").
Anyway - the 335 got a great review in Guitarist even though the price (£1500) was only perhaps 300 or 400 less than a Gibson 335. And then a few months later dealers had them for £795.
(Coda got lots of stock and some of the Les Pauls were £500 including a very posh case).
Crazy prices for a very nice MIJ guitar.

rico

antifash said:

My beaten Burny is killer and up for sale for not a lot of dosh chap. Mightn’t go with your white axes tho...

Ah man if it was in any other colour it would have been perfect! Ha - well remembered  

ellwood

Ha. Honestly, I barely know what I'm doing....ask a grown up

In my experience, and my preference, high-end Tokai and Greco are the sweet spot. I have heard great things about Momose, and Navigator and Edwards- but I've never played one.

As mentioned above - the numbers in some way relate to a value (differs in the execution by manufacturer but is broadly speaking a good starting point. eg an LS80 is a higher value guitar than an LS50. But this doesn't mean the 50 is a bad choice at all!)

I also have a 2015 Tokai LS128 MIJ Burst that is fabulous - a real R9 look and feel. Fitted out with Mojo PAFs it's a real contender. 

Do be aware that a good MIJ Les Paul isn't necessarily going to be a cheap Les Paul. I'm awaiting possession of a 1981 Greco EGF1200 that is the third most expensive Les Paul I've ever bought.  But you should be able to get a fantastic, aged, authentic feeling Les Paul for less than a good Second hand Gibson Standard. 

It really comes down to what you are looking for. But a good, high-end Tokai or Greco is going to be tough to beat. Burny's with original VH1 pickups are highly prized, as are the original Tokai's with Les Paul on the headstock. 

If you want the simplest route - Greco EGF1000 or EGF1200, or Tokai LS320 (certainly 150 or above).

Good luck with your hunting. If you ever want to come and play some MIJ back to back against Gibson let me know and you are welcome to visit the man cave and try a few. 

Look forwarding to your NGD post!

Limehouse_Blues

I’ve owned several old Tokais and some new ones.

I currently have a new LS1 R4 and a 1980 LS80.

If you want a new guitar speak to the guy at Tokai Germany. That’s where I got my R4. The LS1 series is a special run for Tokai Germany and you can find equivalents of R4s, R6s, R8s and R9s. They are exceptional guitars and a bit less of a crapshoot weight wise than old ones (some early 80s Tokais can be quite heavy). I paid 1800 euro for my LS1 R4 and it’s worth every penny. In my opinion as a guitar to play it eclipses anything from Gibson CS. Stunning fret work.

getting hold of old ones is trickier now than before the CITES rules changed but they do come up for sale in the U.K. and across Europe. There’s a dealer in France (japanguitars) who has a good selection. Not the cheapest but quality stuff.

among the old Tokais LS80 and up commands a premium but I owned a 50 (now with ellwood) that was a super axe  

Jock68

I have Momose and Bacchus, both are excellent, far better than any Gibson Custom, harder now to get them out of Japan as some suppliers and sellers do not offer CITES certificates so you do run the risk of losing the guitar when it arrives. 

Iamnobody

Don’t overlook Orville.

Or preferably Orville by Gibson reissues - that gets you an LP with a long neck tenon, fret nibs USA pickups and Nitro.

Adam_MD

Skipped said:

I think the Epiphone Elite/Elitist Es-335 is a great guitar that does not require any upgrades. IMO.
(I don't think Gibson ever actually confirmed it  but I am pretty sure the USA made pickups are 57 Classics).

If you can find one....

Does anyone remember the first run of the Elite range being suddenly "remaindered" for no particular reason?
Maybe it was the problem with the name (another company was using "Elite").
Anyway - the 335 got a great review in Guitarist even though the price (£1500) was only perhaps 300 or 400 less than a Gibson 335. And then a few months later dealers had them for £795.
(Coda got lots of stock and some of the Les Pauls were £500 including a very posh case).
Crazy prices for a very nice MIJ guitar.

The pickups in the elitist are rebadged 498t and 490r but both pickups have an alnico v magnet instead of the alnico ii a 490r usually has.  They were pretty good in mine though I swopped them out for some mojos.

HarrySeven

^Pretty much what's been said already.

If you want what is effectively a high-quality MIJ Gibson-spec Les Paul clone, then the intel is as above.

All I would add is (depending on your price-point), don't automatically discount off-brand/lesser-known Matsumoku, etc stuff...

I either own (or have owned) many, many set-neck (and bolt-on) '70's/'80's MIJ Les Paul copies. Avoiding the obvious low-end plywood horrors (although even there, I've had guitars which have played stunningly well), there are some cracking mid-range instruments (Burny and Greco, blahblahblah amongst them) which sound and play fantastic - you might not get 100% vintage Gibson-accurate construction, but you'll still have a damn fine set-neck, solid wood guitar (albeit maybe with a laminate top).

It *is* a minefield and there is no end to the confusion, but the best thing to do is online research and getting out and playing a few.

Good luck!

benecol

Skipped said:

I think the Epiphone Elite/Elitist Es-335 is a great guitar that does not require any upgrades. IMO.
(I don't think Gibson ever actually confirmed it  but I am pretty sure the USA made pickups are 57 Classics).

If you can find one....

Does anyone remember the first run of the Elite range being suddenly "remaindered" for no particular reason?
Maybe it was the problem with the name (another company was using "Elite").
Anyway - the 335 got a great review in Guitarist even though the price (£1500) was only perhaps 300 or 400 less than a Gibson 335. And then a few months later dealers had them for £795.
(Coda got lots of stock and some of the Les Pauls were £500 including a very posh case).
Crazy prices for a very nice MIJ guitar.

I remember the latter very clearly - my first ever expensive guitar purchase (sold off a '69ri tele and a DeArmond bass) was an Elitist 335 for £750. The following week, Coda was selling off the Casinos for £500. I was gutted.

I've had Tokais and Edwardses - loads of SGs, Juniors and a 335. They've all been brilliant.

Dominic

Atop end Tokai is about as good as it can get ......the Edwardes Navigator is in the same league too.

Neill

As for what to avoid - I have a pre 75 Antoria Les Paul which I got for next to nothing thinking it was a steal - I have had other Antorias that have been great - but this thing is a dog.  it's one of the guitars I will not sell on because I have some respect for the guitar community.  

HarrySeven

Neill said:

As for what to avoid - I have a pre 75 Antoria Les Paul which I got for next to nothing thinking it was a steal - I have had other Antorias that have been great - but this thing is a dog.  it's one of the guitars I will not sell on because I have some respect for the guitar community.  

Well, you know I've got a dog's home...

benecol

I used to have an Antoria too (and a Cimar): they were both OK, but proof of the point: not all MIJ 70s guitars were worthy of a (pretend) lawsuit.

John_A

New
Tokai (avoid Chinese ones)
Edwards
Bacchus
Momose
Burny (Chinese ones are pretty good too)
And lots of other less known brands too

Old (go for post 1980 as earlier ones are very variable, and the top end models are $$$ specs vary depending on models)
Burny ( vast range go from pretty good to amazing)
Tokai ( vast range go from pretty good to amazing)
Greco  ( vast range go from pretty good to amazing)
Orville
Orville by Gibson
Navigator