Meeting to Handover Guitar

Garthy

thermionic said:

Garthy said:

I’v bought loads of stuff like this, the LP, a Strat, a drum kit. It’s what people did before the internet. 

I don’t remember Paypal existing before the internet. 

And life was fuck loads better for it.

adamm82

If you hand deliver and are paid by PayPal you are open to the old Oh there is something not quite right or here is a ding I want a discount. Then they have all the power as you can’t be arsed to go back home with the guitar and if you don’t give them the discount they can claim they never received it. 

I thought delivering it personally would be preferable to posting. But I didn’t like it. If you do it get the physical cash. 

Buying and selling on  here i’ve not had any bad experiences only very good ones. 

Teyeplayer

Iamnobody said:

It’s not advised but I’ve done it. One guy paid by PayPal and collected the guitar over a month later! 

The last time I didn’t - and insisted on cash. It turned out to be a middle aged bloke buying the guitar for his son and he travelled up from Manchester on the train. We had a coffee and a chat until his train home was due. His son was delighted with the guitar and they sent me a video of his first gig with it. 

He was clearly uncomfortable carrying the amount of cash and had previously paid by PayPal which I refunded. I felt a bit mean in the end as he was a great guy/dad who had no intention of ripping me off.

Has anyone actually done a deal in person and subsequently been ripped off or is it just internet wisdom that it ‘could’ happen?

I’ve a mate who had a deal go pear shaped when the buyers ‘own courier’ was used and then a payback (dear eBay my account was hacked) scam was launched. 

However like you I’ve done loads of deals in and out before -and have had a few where afterwards I too felt guilty for being a stickler on how to exchange. That said, with the amount of low moral bedroom sellers passing off fakes and parts builds as mint originals on there now I trust folk less and less.

John_P

Iamnobody said:

Has anyone actually done a deal in person and subsequently been ripped off or is it just internet wisdom that it ‘could’ happen?

With regular PayPal then yes so it is worth some caution but with ppg or a bank transfer, no.  I’m sure there will be a way to do that but forged notes or having an unrelated stranger randomly mugging you or highjacking the car are probably more likely.   

mort

Still surprised at the number of people on here advocating PPG.

You can be scammed just as easily - ‘buyer’ just has to claim that their account was used fraudulently and they get a full refund. 

Chalky

mort said:

Still surprised at the number of people on here advocating PPG.

You can be scammed just as easily - ‘buyer’ just has to claim that their account was used fraudulently and they get a full refund. 

I am shaking my head in disbelief too @mort.

Reminds me of the old copper's tale "But Officer, I always leave my house unlocked and I have NEVER been burgled before! So NO, it is NOT my own fault!"

jakzek

Only problem I’ve had was when I met a guy at a train station to sell a guitar. Was a bit awkward with everyone staring at us in the waiting room, and then he started saying how the neck was twisted and would cost a lot to sort out when it quite clearly wasn’t. He was basically trying to get it cheaper than the agreed price. In the end I said well it’s up to you take it or leave it and he realised I wasn’t being taken for a fool and paid the asking price. Other than that all other meets have been fine. 

Octafish

Paul_C said:

Years ago a friend of mine who worked in a Ford parts warehouse told me about a couple of blokes who came round selling cheap name-brand electrical goods - they had some examples and an order sheet so that anyone could place an order with them - the plan being that they took orders which they would have ready for the buyers at a warehouse of their own on a trading estate in London.

Two of the guys from Ford went down in a van to collect the goods and when they got to the address one of the sellers pulled out a gun, took the cash and then told them to clear off.

I'm sure your deal will be fine though

You have to be pretty gullible and dim to fall for that sort of scam, or maybe the blokes who went to collect where in on the scam.

Reminds me of the old scam where unplausibly cheap name electrical goods were sold out of the back of a van with several examples on display. Gullible punter gets taken in, hands over money and his handed a new sealed box only to find out it's got bricks in it when they open it at home.

Jack_

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but if the buyer needs to use PayPal (for instance when you can't withdraw a large sum of money without telling your bank first) then you could take PayPal, but not via eBay.

I've bought a guitar before where I paid PayPal gift via my phone in front of the seller, you could do the same with a bank transfer I assume, but I've had issues in the past where if I send an amount over a threshold either my bank or the other parties bank holds the money to do checks, hence I prefer PPG.

Mortland

Have they been 100% against alternative payment methods? That’s usually a good sign they aren’t legitimate! 

Fortheloveofguitar

If you accept PayPal on this deal then you are foolish. 

Even using PayPal friends and family as it’s now known you are leaving yourself wide open to get fucked over 

It’s easy to say and prove that you’ve had fraudulent activity on your account and PayPal will reverse the money.

The latest is that the buyer will pay via friends and family and use a credit card, they then contact their credit card company and raise it as fraudulent and request a refund under the chargeback scheme. They take the money back then PayPal will take it from you or put your account in the red and if you don’t pay it they send the debt collectors in 

richcol

meltedbuzzbox said:x

PayPal protection does mean that the buyer could potentially claim that they never received the guitar and claw back their cash. 

This. If you search online you'll see lots of info on scams you'd be open to. I've called PayPal about this when I was selling an amp and they said only to post for the reason above. 

TTony

Erskine said:

but instead of paying the postage - which admittedly includes a hefty insurance charge -

Sorry to add even more negativity - or risk awareness as it should probably be called - but are you aware that most carriers won't pay out for guitars damaged in transit?

They'll allow you to buy the insurance, but it's completely pointless because musical instruments are generally listed as an excluded item in the small print.  Check the T&Cs for whichever carrier you're intending to use.

And that's before you get into all the other dodgy-eBay-buyer scams ...

TTony

mort said:

Still surprised at the number of people on here advocating PPG.

You can be scammed just as easily - ‘buyer’ just has to claim that their account was used fraudulently and they get a full refund. 

That might be because PPG is generally used for deals between members here, so people fall into the trap of believing that it's always fine, no matter who you're dealing with.

PPG within the forum community is - as long as you take some basic/obvious precautions - pretty safe.  But PPG with a stranger, and an eBay stranger at that, is a different situation.

That said, if someone was using the "my card/account was used without my permission" scam to claim back a PPG transaction, they might get away with it once or twice, but beyond that, PP and/or their credit card provider are likely to notice.   

The scammer would  have to be running some fairly hefty scams to make it worth the risk of trashing their credit history by having a fraud marker put on it.  Though - as we've shown here a few times - scammers aren't always the cleverest of people ...

Fortheloveofguitar

Courier insurance on a guitar is only any good for if they lose the parcel altogether. If they damage it then they won’t pay out 

skunkwerx

This got me thinking, wasnt there a recent thread which went something like this: (could be wrong though). 

Genuine seller advertises guitar on ebay or whatnot. Payment through paypal on ebay too. Delivery by tracked/signed for means. So seller believes all is safe.

Buyer pays for guitar by the legit means.

Seller puts guitar into hardcase into box. Ships it.

Few days later buyer then claims the guitar case was empty upon reciept. 

All seller could do is prove he shipped a box, and said box was signed for the other end. Didnt have any proof his guitar was actually inside the box though. 

thegummy

skunkwerx said: 

This got me thinking, wasnt there a recent thread which went something like this: (could be wrong though). 

Genuine seller advertises guitar on ebay or whatnot. Payment through paypal on ebay too. Delivery by tracked/signed for means. So seller believes all is safe.

Buyer pays for guitar by the legit means.

Seller puts guitar into hardcase into box. Ships it.

Few days later buyer then claims the guitar case was empty upon reciept. 

All seller could do is prove he shipped a box, and said box was signed for the other end. Didnt have any proof his guitar was actually inside the box though. 

I always think of this when people talk of proof of delivery - it just proves that something was posted, not the specific item.

Is there any service at all where someone official will actually look to see what is being posted?

skunkwerx

thegummy said:

skunkwerx said: 

This got me thinking, wasnt there a recent thread which went something like this: (could be wrong though). 

Genuine seller advertises guitar on ebay or whatnot. Payment through paypal on ebay too. Delivery by tracked/signed for means. So seller believes all is safe.

Buyer pays for guitar by the legit means.

Seller puts guitar into hardcase into box. Ships it.

Few days later buyer then claims the guitar case was empty upon reciept. 

All seller could do is prove he shipped a box, and said box was signed for the other end. Didnt have any proof his guitar was actually inside the box though. 

I always think of this when people talk of proof of delivery - it just proves that something was posted, not the specific item.

Is there any service at all where someone official will actually look to see what is being posted?

Airlines. Lol. 

sweepy

I’ve often sold large gear and where the courier and diesel price is similar and my shift pattern allows I’ve charged the courier rate and delivered it myself. I have also met up half way etc for other transactions and send cash only. 

t1000

I recently sold a RC car and met face to face and he paid me paypal gift. He did it on his phone infront of me and im sure he used his credit card! He seemed genuine enough and surely it would be difficult to prove it was fraud as I have many messages about the meet up and exchange etc. So I would keep messages etc as back up just in case. I think most people are genuine and there are only a few who want to scam.