Buying a House/New Housing Developers/Help to Buy

Panama_Jack666

Now then,

Looking at buying a house. The only way we can afford to do it is through help to buy doing the equity loan with a 5% deposit.

We've looked around two new build developments. I'm massively skeptical when talking to sales people so naturally head straight to google and look for reviews.

The house we saw yesterday was through Bellway homes. They have a score of 1.8/10 on Trustpilot. Not good! The other developer we looked at was David Wilson homes and they have better reviews. However, horror stories aren't that far away if you look!

I am realistic about teething problems and I s'pose that people would only write reviews if they have a negative experience.

Has anyone on here moved in to a new build house? Is the equity loan a good move? Generally any first time buyer advice?

Cheers

RMJ

I have done this twice in the past 8 years. Similar position to you...you can have a much bigger house with the help to buy equity loan.

Big house builders, in my experience, are cunts. Our second new build, the one we are currently in, was an absolute shambles when we moved in. Clearly unfinished and rushed so they could get our money before year end financial targets. They will cut corners wherever they can, and will claim to have your best interests in mind. Bollocks. They want your cash, and it's better for them to have it and sort out snags later.  In our case the snags have been significant e.g. staircase not installed properly. Some neighbours have had kitchens refitted (they send labourers on a course to fit kitchens by the way). I went through considerable stress getting the 100+ snags sorted. Some were minor, but fucking annoying, like some wanker had painted skirts when the carpet was laid, and got paint everywhere.

If you expect the worst and can cope with lots of your own personal time sorting out shit, then after a year or so you forget the pain and are left, generally, with a decent house.

My advice would be to find a good solicitor who is prepared to withhold your money from the bastards until you are completely satisfied with the house. That means them giving you access to check it thoroughly before completion, and preferably, let you visit it during construction so you can challenge some of the obvious dumb shit they are doing (they set out our neighbours house wrong and encroached on their neighbours, leaving them with a single garage instead of a double....for a 5 bed house....)

I'd also follow the builder on Facebook and Twitter. 

Panama_Jack666

RMJ said:

I have done this twice in the past 8 years. Similar position to you...you can have a much bigger house with the help to buy equity loan.

Big house builders, in my experience, are cunts. Our second new build, the one we are currently in, was an absolute shambles when we moved in. Clearly unfinished and rushed so they could get our money before year end financial targets. They will cut corners wherever they can, and will claim to have your best interests in mind. Bollocks. They want your cash, and it's better for them to have it and sort out snags later.  In our case the snags have been significant e.g. staircase not installed properly. Some neighbours have had kitchens refitted (they send labourers on a course to fit kitchens by the way). I went through considerable stress getting the 100+ snags sorted. Some were minor, but fucking annoying, like some wanker had painted skirts when the carpet was laid, and got paint everywhere.

If you expect the worst and can cope with lots of your own personal time sorting out shit, then after a year or so you forget the pain and are left, generally, with a decent house.

My advice would be to find a good solicitor who is prepared to withhold your money from the bastards until you are completely satisfied with the house. That means them giving you access to check it thoroughly before completion, and preferably, let you visit it during construction so you can challenge some of the obvious dumb shit they are doing (they set out our neighbours house wrong and encroached on their neighbours, leaving them with a single garage instead of a double....for a 5 bed house....)

I'd also follow the builder on Facebook and Twitter. 

Thanks for your thoughts! Really useful! It sort of confirms my thoughts!

Which housing developers did you buy from?

WezV

What’s ruling out an older property?

in my experience you get a lot more for your money.  Mine cost half as much as the new build my boss got at the same time.  His had an extra bedroom, all of them small, no seperate dining room, no seperate utility, weird shaped lounge.  Mine is about 30% bigger overall, with big square rooms and 3 double bedrooms.

he had massive snagging issues mainly due to damp issues from rushed plastering and added extras that nobody seemed qualified to actually fit .  I had to get a new roof,  but the house was in good decorative condition comparable with a new build.

there are upsides and downsides for both, but I don’t think newer properties can compete on value for money and space.

3 1/2 years later, I have a very nice value increase to protect me from negative equity.

RMJ

@Panama_Jack666 Persimmon and then Charles Church (also owned by Persimmon)

Send me a message is you want to know more. Some people I know have had better experiences

Teyeplayer

Got our first house 5 years ago through the help to buy scheme. We wouldn’t have our own home if it wasn’t for that scheme, so much as there can be problems, it is a means to an end that I am grateful for. 

We looked at a lot of new builds at the time of buying and were less than impressed by most. I’ve friends who have purchased from the two you mention and they have had long ridiculous snagging lists (such as bare screws sticking up and out of the stairs). We went with Taylor Wimpey as their fit and finish generally seemed a higher standard and our snagging list only came to a few dozen minor things. They also rushed through the sale for us and paid all solicitor fees because we wanted to be out of our rented house by winter (and I presume they wanted to hit sales targets).

Since then however we’ve had a leak from the pipe behind our downstairs loo that ruined all the flooring throughout the downstairs along with intermittent problems from the cheap boiler they installed. Of course these were outside warranty -the 10years nhbc cover covers the absolute minimum and has a plenty of small print getting developers off the hook.

So my advice would be, have very open eyes about what you are buying. Be picky about fit and finish and be prepared for the same things to go wrong come winter that seem to happen in every rented house you’ve ever lived in (because people that want your money cut corners). But use it too. My help to buy equity loan still came out less than the profit I’m currently making on the house if I choose to sell.

RMJ

WezV said:

What’s ruling out an older property?

in my experience you get a lot more for your money.  Mine cost half as much as the new build my boss got at the same time.  His had an extra bedroom, all of them small, no seperate dining room, no seperate utility, weird shaped lounge.  Mine is about 30% bigger overall, with big square rooms and 3 double bedrooms.

he had massive snagging issues mainly due to damp issues from rushed plastering and added extras that nobody seemed qualified to actually fit .  I had to get a new roof,  but the house was in good decorative condition comparable with a new build.

there are upsides and downsides for both, but I don’t think newer properties can compete on value for money and space.

3 1/2 years later, I have a very nice value increase to protect me from negative equity.

I would absolutely buy used if it was an option. When we bought this house our mortgage options were very limited. Help to buy increased our loan to value substantially. We've had a lot of faff with the house but its size and location were not available to us in the used market. 

m_c

My workmate went through a major snagging list on a new build last year.

He ended up with the site manager creating the snagging list, which stretched to two A4 pages. And they weren't just minor problems. The kitchen had to be stripped back out to fix a 25mm run in the floor. One door started jamming, which turned out to be the floor joists above hadn't been secured correctly, so had dropped and crushed the door frame. There was a 10mm gap below the front room window (He'd often thought there was a draft, but it wasn't until he happened to bend down to pick something up one night, that he realised you could look out onto the street below the window frame).

He ended up getting compensation, but that included a gagging clause so he can't discuss the problems now.

joneve

We bought a Bovis house 3 years ago, and suffered some of the same snagging issues that every owner of a new build faces. 

As as long as you’re vigilant and point out the snagging and ensure they get things sorted, you should be fine. And also just keep an open mind on the fit and finish. They’re built for quantity unfortunately, so you sometimes suffer in the finish quality. 

Overall ours hasnt been too bad, and could be a lot worse. The thing that we liked about Bovis is that they include a lot as standard; appliances, fully tiled and integrated bath/shower (rather than just one tile high and a hand held shower off a mixer tap) and carpets/bathroom floor tiles. The room size and layouts are good too. 

spark240

Well....If you saw the price say a spark was paid to first fix / 2nd fix a new house you can see how corners get cut, Ive no doubt the other trades are under the same pressure, everyone is under pressure from the start, builder, sales, etc.

Sadly all the bad press in the works won't stop people buying new houses, so if thats what you want then just do it but with a very open mind, it will be super stressful, it won't be ready on time, it will have loads of issues and you won't get half of them sorted...otherwise should be a breeze !

Forget NHBC, Ive been there a few times , total waste of paper.

That said...I did buy a new house once and the biggest issue was the Gledhill all electric heating system.

To be honest I wounded bother trying g to get the builder to sort minor issues, try for some money off before final payment and get it done yourself.

Oh....keep us update....like to see how this one pans out.

mellowsun

Just make sure it is freehold and not subject to the new-build leasehold and ground rent scam that developers have been pulling.

midlifecrisis

mellowsun said:

Just make sure it is freehold and not subject to the new-build leasehold and ground rent scam that developers have been pulling.

yes, i was about to mention that, seems a big scam at the moment.

Phil_aka_Pip

what @ mellowsun said ...

a workmate bought new because it was the only way he could afford it. Had a list of snags as long as your arm.  He showed me a lot of designs and layouts while he was deciding what to get. Strikes me that new houses are without exception designed by architects who have had 2/3 or their brain cells removed before they were allowed to practice, and built by cheapskate cowboys. Not to mention sited in floodplains where nobody in his right mind would build and even if they are put somewhere geographically sensible they're all claustrophobic cheek-by-jowl with street lights outside the bedroom windows.

boogieman

Seen a couple of new builds that friends and family have bought. I’ve not been that impressed.

Firstly the architects seem to try to squeeze too much into the ground space: yes you might get a kitchen plus utility room and four bedrooms, but really they’re too cramped to be useful and would’ve been better with a simple kitchen layout and just three beds.  

Secondly the level of sound insulation was appalling. In one of the places you could hear not only next door’s tv but also their conversations and even them using the toilet. 

Panama_Jack666

Cheers for all the replies and insights guys, I really appreciate it. 

It's sort of confirmed what we thought. The Mrs has gone off a new build idea now. I'm not really sure what the next move is yet. The rental contract we have expires in June and I really don't want to sign for another 12 months (landlord won't let us do the rolling month thing). 

The problem is, the house prices are insane where we are and an equity loan is the best opportunity of getting on the housing ladder sooner rather than later. It has to be a new build if using an equity loan. 

To give some context. 3 Bed Terrace (and let's be honest, more like 2 bed + box room) with no front garden and a pretty small rear garden is looking like 280 grand before fitting a kitchen, flooring e.t.c.

I'm already bored to death of mortgages, money and houses. 

joneve

Panama_Jack666 said:

Cheers for all the replies and insights guys, I really appreciate it. 

It's sort of confirmed what we thought. The Mrs has gone off a new build idea now. I'm not really sure what the next move is yet. The rental contract we have expires in June and I really don't want to sign for another 12 months (landlord won't let us do the rolling month thing). 

The problem is, the house prices are insane where we are and an equity loan is the best opportunity of getting on the housing ladder sooner rather than later. It has to be a new build if using an equity loan. 

To give some context. 3 Bed Terrace (and let's be honest, more like 2 bed + box room) with no front garden and a pretty small rear garden is looking like 280 grand before fitting a kitchen, flooring e.t.c.

I'm already bored to death of mortgages, money and houses. 

New builds are fine if you take them for what they are and you pick the better of the developers if you can. My wife never wanted a new build, we've now had 2, for the very reason that they're more affordable than everything else we liked and there's relatively less stress. 

All the best in whatever you decide. 

shuikit

Have you seen this?
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/help-to-buy-ISA

thermionic

Is it true that they have a special set of furniture in the showhome that's 7/8ths scale or something, to make the rooms look bigger than they actually are?

Panama_Jack666

shuikit said:

Have you seen this?
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/help-to-buy-ISA

Yeah - I opened one yesterday but I can't actually deposit anything into it until April because I have another ISA on the go. My partner is also opening one. 

The problem with the Help To Buy ISA is you can only deposit £200 a month after an initial £1,000 payment. We've already got a bit of savings together and £200 is slow going to say we would like to be out of where we are by summer. Every but helps though!

Panama_Jack666

thermionic said:

Is it true that they have a special set of furniture in the showhome that's 7/8ths scale or something, to make the rooms look bigger than they actually are?

I thought that yesterday! The double bed in the master bedroom seemed suspiciously small! 

joneve

thermionic said:

Is it true that they have a special set of furniture in the showhome that's 7/8ths scale or something, to make the rooms look bigger than they actually are?

No idea but I wouldn't put it past them. thats why we used real world room dimensions before making any decisions