TTBZ is the pull boost on Origin 20 Head footswitchable ?

Telejester

The 20 head sounds great and I love that its EL34 based, can you confirm that the supplied pedal allows you to access pull boost ?

Cheers

Telejester

not to worry question answered earlier, andertons site log jammed at present, cant even get into my account 

TTBZ

Yes the boost and fx loop are footswitchable!

Telejester

Eventually got into andertons account , have placed order for Origin 20 Head, fingers crossed it lives up to expectations, I HATE el84s and its a relief the head comes with el34 tubes. Looking forward to using it with my new catalinbread talisman and I will see how it goes 

p90fool

I'm intrigued, what do you hate about EL84s?

Telejester

p90fool said:

I'm intrigued, what do you hate about EL84s?

absolutely no arse in the lows and brittle top end

ICBM

What I hate about them is that amp designers seem to think they need to be run at about 150% of the maximum rating at idle, and that this somehow makes the amp ‘Class A’.

Apart from that they’re quite hard to tell apart from any other valve when the circuit is designed to run them under the same sorts of conditions. They do have a slight ‘characteristic’ sound when overdriven, although it’s one of the smaller factors in the sound of an amp.

But if you want to build a 20W amp then using a pair of EL34s run extremely conservatively in cathode bias is going to be far more reliable than a pair of EL84s run at the absolute limit for both voltage and dissipation, so that makes it a good thing. It also means you can avoid needing adjustable bias, which is a good thing given the variability if modern valves.

I do think EL34s run like that sound fuller and clearer than EL84s for the same power output too - the Orange Rocker 30 vs their 30W EL84 amps is an example, although the rest of the circuits aren’t identical either.

timmysoft

Telejester said:

p90fool said:

I'm intrigued, what do you hate about EL84s?

absolutely no arse in the lows and brittle top end

I haven’t had this from my SuperDrive or AD30

id go as far as saying my SuperDrive has more low end than my old Mesa Stiletto ace. 

Speaker choice is far more noticeable than valve type in my opinion.

shaunm

timmysoft said:

Telejester said:

p90fool said:

I'm intrigued, what do you hate about EL84s?

absolutely no arse in the lows and brittle top end

I haven’t had this from my SuperDrive or AD30

Doesn’t the AC30’s run on EL84’s? I don’t find those brittle. 

ICBM

shaunm said:

timmysoft said:

Telejester said:

p90fool said:

I'm intrigued, what do you hate about EL84s?

absolutely no arse in the lows and brittle top end

I haven’t had this from my SuperDrive or AD30

Doesn’t the AC30’s run on EL84’s? I don’t find those brittle. 

Yes.

Here are some EL84 amps...

AC30
Marshall 2061
Fender Blues Junior
Peavey Classic 30
Mesa Mini Rectifier

Do any of those even sound remotely the same?

It's not the valves that matter.

p90fool

I must admit after decades of messing around with amps, building them from scratch, modding circuits, valve swapping and biasing, including a testbed amp which I've modified to run three different power valve types, I honestly couldn't tell you what individual valve types actually sound like.  

I kind of know what @Telejester is getting at though, EL84s tend to be used in certain types of amps which have similar characteristics, but for me that's not the sound of the valve itself, more the use to which designers tend to put them. 

Collings

Telejester said:

Eventually got into andertons account , have placed order for Origin 20 Head, fingers crossed it lives up to expectations, I HATE el84s and its a relief the head comes with el34 tubes. Looking forward to using it with my new catalinbread talisman and I will see how it goes 

Just wondered how you got from "totally agree, i couldnt be any more NOT blown away by what im witnessing so far" to ordering one? 

p90fool

Collings said:

Telejester said:

Eventually got into andertons account , have placed order for Origin 20 Head, fingers crossed it lives up to expectations, I HATE el84s and its a relief the head comes with el34 tubes. Looking forward to using it with my new catalinbread talisman and I will see how it goes 

Just wondered how you got from "totally agree, i couldnt be any more NOT blown away by what im witnessing so far" to ordering one? 

He found out it's got a 3 in it, not an 8.

Telejester

Collings said:

Telejester said:

Eventually got into andertons account , have placed order for Origin 20 Head, fingers crossed it lives up to expectations, I HATE el84s and its a relief the head comes with el34 tubes. Looking forward to using it with my new catalinbread talisman and I will see how it goes 

Just wondered how you got from "totally agree, i couldnt be any more NOT blown away by what im witnessing so far" to ordering one? 

that referred to the dsl's, i hadnt heard of the origins at that time. the dsl,'s did feck all for me. the simpler the amp the better for me, realky liked what i heard in the origin 20 head video and really hope it delivers.

John_A

ICBM said:

shaunm said:

timmysoft said:

Telejester said:

p90fool said:

I'm intrigued, what do you hate about EL84s?

absolutely no arse in the lows and brittle top end

I haven’t had this from my SuperDrive or AD30

Doesn’t the AC30’s run on EL84’s? I don’t find those brittle. 

Yes.

Here are some EL84 amps...

AC30
Marshall 2061
Fender Blues Junior
Peavey Classic 30
Mesa Mini Rectifier

Do any of those even sound remotely the same?

It's not the valves that matter.

So very true.  I've build fixed bias amps using a Marshall style circuit and tried EL84's, EL34's, 6L6's and 6V6s, there was a difference, but not as big as you would think, some people think a 6L6 am sounds Fenedry, a EL34 amp Marshally etc.  That just isn't the case

crunchman

Whatever you think about the sound though, EL84s don't seem to last long.  Maybe it is because they are often run hot, but running a bigger valve at a lower voltage seems a much better idea.  When I had a Classic 30 I was replacing the power valves at least once a year.  The valves seem to last for years in all the 6L6/6V6 amps I've had.

ICBM

crunchman said:

Whatever you think about the sound though, EL84s don't seem to last long.  Maybe it is because they are often run hot, but running a bigger valve at a lower voltage seems a much better idea.  When I had a Classic 30 I was replacing the power valves at least once a year.  The valves seem to last for years in all the 6L6/6V6 amps I've had.

Yes, it’s because EL84s are typically run at over 100% of maximum dissipation even at idle, in guitar amps.

Ironically one of the few that runs them more sensibly is the Classic 30, but which kills them by vibration instead!

Interestingly the Classic 50 is much less hard on them despite the higher power output, because they’re mounted much better.

The slightly harsh upper-mid character that’s often associated with EL84s is a characteristic of over-hot bias more than the valve itself.