A message to Jean Claude Junker

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Saw this today ....


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  • fnptfnpt Frets: 452
    That's the kind of argument that the greek used when they had to pay back the bail out and it didn't really work for them...
    ____
    "You don't know what you've got till the whole thing's gone. The days are dark and the road is long."





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  • Oh aye...because wwii cost the rest of the world nothing. Morons

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    Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you
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  • Also...moved to BCD in 5...4...3...

    My Trading Feedback    |    You Bring The Band

    Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you
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  • Zzzzzzzzzzz

    And if there's anything good about me, I'm the only one who knows

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  • Like it. However I could suggest a much shorter and far more succint message for Herr Junkcer in 2 characters. 'F' and 'O'.
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 5797
    Sigh. that point you reach when someone's argument is so wide and far of the mark that you don't even know where to start.
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6173
    I've decided to read that in the style of Captain Mainwairing. 


    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16230
    fnpt said:
    That's the kind of argument that the greek used when they had to pay back the bail out and it didn't really work for them...
    Not really. The German's stole all the gold in the Greek central bank in 1943. The Paris reparations conference in 1945 accepted calculations that estimated damage to Greece to amount to 7bn pre-war US dollars.The Germans obfuscated.

    And then there was the banking crash. German banks were owed billions by Greece so the Germans hatched a plan. The German government couldn't recapitalise German banks due to EU regulations so they got the EU to fund a rescue package for Greece and then used the money to repay their banks (the French also got some money). So Greece was thrown under a bus and left bankrupt.


    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 1222
    Fretwired said:
    fnpt said:
    That's the kind of argument that the greek used when they had to pay back the bail out and it didn't really work for them...
    Not really. The German's stole all the gold in the Greek central bank in 1943. The Paris reparations conference in 1945 accepted calculations that estimated damage to Greece to amount to 7bn pre-war US dollars.The Germans obfuscated.

    And then there was the banking crash. German banks were owed billions by Greece so the Germans hatched a plan. The German government couldn't recapitalise German banks due to EU regulations so they got the EU to fund a rescue package for Greece and then used the money to repay their banks (the French also got some money). So Greece was thrown under a bus and left bankrupt.


    Yep Germany "bailed" out the weaker currencies to ensure their banks got repaid rather have them all default.  To be fair had the Greeks paid some tax the situation might have been avoided.  They interviewed a greek restaurant owner who admitted he had opened his restaurant 10 years ago but never officially quit his job, just stopped turning up, was still getting government pay cheques every month.

    As for the letter about the war dead, its a bit like 1966, we can't keep just chanting "two world wars and one world cup doo dah" at Europe really.  Although the French should say thanks for saving them while they hid in the attic : )
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16230
    VimFuego said:
    I've decided to read that in the style of Captain Mainwairing. 


    I prefer Boris Johnson .. more apposite as it's the sort of diatribe Johnson would utter.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 14241
    Also...moved to BCD in 5...4...3...
    Nope - Politics.
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  • Come to think of it, there must be a few countries that still owe us for saving them from Napoleon, although we might have to share the payment with the Prussians (or whoever is their present day descendents).
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • RavenousRavenous Frets: 1443
    Going by Stupid Mr Cooper's argument, we Brits will end up paying most of the world damages from what we did in the colonial days.  We only moved out quite recently...
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  • Ravenous said:
    Going by Stupid Mr Cooper's argument, we Brits will end up paying most of the world damages from what we did in the colonial days.  We only moved out quite recently...
    we can pay it out of what the Italians are going to pay for reparations from the Roman Empire.

    Although I do think there's a difference between reparations and paying back the cost of a bailout
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16230
    Come to think of it, there must be a few countries that still owe us for saving them from Napoleon, although we might have to share the payment with the Prussians (or whoever is their present day descendents).
    How about the French in general and before them the Spanish.
    munckee said:
    Fretwired said:
    fnpt said:
    That's the kind of argument that the greek used when they had to pay back the bail out and it didn't really work for them...
    Not really. The German's stole all the gold in the Greek central bank in 1943. The Paris reparations conference in 1945 accepted calculations that estimated damage to Greece to amount to 7bn pre-war US dollars.The Germans obfuscated.

    And then there was the banking crash. German banks were owed billions by Greece so the Germans hatched a plan. The German government couldn't recapitalise German banks due to EU regulations so they got the EU to fund a rescue package for Greece and then used the money to repay their banks (the French also got some money). So Greece was thrown under a bus and left bankrupt.


    Yep Germany "bailed" out the weaker currencies to ensure their banks got repaid rather have them all default.  To be fair had the Greeks paid some tax the situation might have been avoided.  They interviewed a greek restaurant owner who admitted he had opened his restaurant 10 years ago but never officially quit his job, just stopped turning up, was still getting government pay cheques every month.

    As for the letter about the war dead, its a bit like 1966, we can't keep just chanting "two world wars and one world cup doo dah" at Europe really.  Although the French should say thanks for saving them while they hid in the attic : )
    Greece was a basket case but the EU and Germany knew it. They still let Greece join the Euro knowing it could crash the Greek economy. It was like lending an alcoholic money to buy drink.

    Germany has the benefits of the Euro, which makes German exports cheaper than they would have been under the Deutschmark, which also allows it to make healthy surpluses which are against EU rules (Germany merely hides them). The French get money to keep their farmers happy and generally ignore most of the rules and the Italians are  cooking their books. Spain is bust.

    The EU is a crooked Ponzi scheme.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • exocetexocet Frets: 534
    That "we paid the bill" diatribe has been doing the rounds in local papers, Facebook, Twitter etc  for months, often attributed to a different author. God knows who really wrote it or how accurate the assessment is. 
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  • Fretwired said:

    The EU is a crooked Ponzi scheme.
    wis
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  • domforrdomforr Frets: 163
    Fits perfectly in line with the national mythology that Britain actually won the war single handedly, with minor roles being played by the Soviets and US. 

    It's no wonder that the rest of the continent looks at us with a bemused sigh and shakes its head sadly. I live in hope (but not expectation) that one day this country will free itself from the WW2/Empire/British exceptionalism fantasies and engage with the modern world as a proper grown up country.  
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 10525
    domforr said:
    ... I live in hope (but not expectation) that one day this country will free itself from the WW2/Empire/British exceptionalism fantasies and engage with the modern world as a proper grown up country.  
    What, you mean like by leaving the European Union?
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  • ronnybronnyb Frets: 473
    domforr said:
    Fits perfectly in line with the national mythology that Britain actually won the war single handedly, with minor roles being played by the Soviets and US. 

    It's no wonder that the rest of the continent looks at us with a bemused sigh and shakes its head sadly. I live in hope (but not expectation) that one day this country will free itself from the WW2/Empire/British exceptionalism fantasies and engage with the modern world as a proper grown up country.  
    Whilst agreeing with this, had Britain not held out against the Germans there would never have been a stepping stone for the invasion of Europe from the West and the outcome could have been very different. 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11019
    axisus said:
    Saw this today ....




    WWII - that thing where a Conservative Prime Minister went to Germany in the hope of brokering an agreement based on appeasement. He returned with a piece of paper which wasn't worth anything, and eventually was forced to resign after much pissing by Conservative colleagues. A new Prime Minister came in, Britain dug in and fought until the country was on its knees, eventually being forced to rely on foreign countries to bail her out of the shit. 

    Brexit - that thing where a Conservative Prime Minister went to Brussels in the hope of brokering an agreement based on appeasement. He returned with a piece of paper which wasn't worth anything, and eventually was forced to resign after much pissing by Conservative colleagues. A new Prime Minister came in, Britain dug in and fought until the country was on its knees. 

    So we're in the shit and just waiting for the foreigners again. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16230
    axisus said:
    Saw this today ....




    WWII - that thing where a Conservative Prime Minister went to Germany in the hope of brokering an agreement based on appeasement. He returned with a piece of paper which wasn't worth anything, and eventually was forced to resign after much pissing by Conservative colleagues. A new Prime Minister came in, Britain dug in and fought until the country was on its knees, eventually being forced to rely on foreign countries to bail her out of the shit. 

    Brexit - that thing where a Conservative Prime Minister went to Brussels in the hope of brokering an agreement based on appeasement. He returned with a piece of paper which wasn't worth anything, and eventually was forced to resign after much pissing by Conservative colleagues. A new Prime Minister came in, Britain dug in and fought until the country was on its knees. 

    So we're in the shit and just waiting for the foreigners again. 
    Brexit comment fine. Chamberlin comment harsh. Whatever you think of the piece of paper it bought some time for the Spitfire to come into service and the Chain Home Radar System to come online. The two scenarios are different. Brexit is self-inflicted.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 760
    Yep, we would have been fooked without Chamberlin buying us vital time. That letter in the local paper is silly on numerous levels. 

    On another note, the Greeks deserved to be thrown under the bus as the way they were living was insane. The fact they were bailed out to preserve the european banks is little different to how we bailed out the UK banks. I don't personally agree we should have and Rome should have burned, but wtf do I know about economics......

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 8320
    ronnyb said:
    domforr said:
    Fits perfectly in line with the national mythology that Britain actually won the war single handedly, with minor roles being played by the Soviets and US. 

    It's no wonder that the rest of the continent looks at us with a bemused sigh and shakes its head sadly. I live in hope (but not expectation) that one day this country will free itself from the WW2/Empire/British exceptionalism fantasies and engage with the modern world as a proper grown up country.  
    Whilst agreeing with this, had Britain not held out against the Germans there would never have been a stepping stone for the invasion of Europe from the West and the outcome could have been very different. 
    In other words we distracted the bully by biting his knees until the big boys turned up.

    Given that the rest of the Europe moved on from that more than half a century ago it's a hell of a thing to base your national self esteem on.

    Ok that and some crackly old black and white footage of a football match. "They think it's all over", well yes actually. 
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  • exocetexocet Frets: 534
    edited February 14
    p90fool said:
    ronnyb said:

    Ok that and some crackly old black and white footage of a football match. "They think it's all over", well yes actually. 
    Given his recent success with restoring and colourising WW1 footage, I hear that Peter Jackson is going to turn his hand to that grainy monochrome 1966 match...bringing it up to date for the new Brexit generation.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31573
    Fretwired said:

    Brexit comment fine. Chamberlin comment harsh. Whatever you think of the piece of paper it bought some time for the Spitfire to come into service and the Chain Home Radar System to come online. The two scenarios are different. Brexit is self-inflicted.
    Chamberlain is one of the most unjustly maligned figures in our history - he was caught between a bad option and a worse one, and chose the bad one. The release of his private papers a few years ago proved that he was under no illusions about Hitler and had no choice other than sacrificing Czechoslovakia to buy us the time we needed to prepare - military production was massively increased after Munich, especially for the RAF. ‘Peace for our time’ was a public relations stunt to reassure the population, nothing more. War in 1938-39 would have been even more disastrous than it nearly was a year later.

    He also worked hard and effectively as essentially Churchill’s deputy after he resigned as PM, for the few months up to his death in late 1940.

    "Poor Neville, he will come badly out of history - I know, because I will write the history." - Winston Churchill. Although actually Michael Foot is probably more to blame - as a young journalist he helped write (anonymously) an anti-Chamberlain book which was wrong in several ways but was highly influential.


    But even if Brexit is an economic success beyond the wildest dreams of the most ardent Leavers, David Cameron deserves no credit for it. He also waltzed off as soon as he lost the referendum and has done nothing to help his successor - not that his help would be useful probably.

    He's more of a second Eden than a second Chamberlain - a man whose arrogance and incompetence led him to make a completely unnecessary mistake which seriously damaged Britain's position in the world.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • domforrdomforr Frets: 163
    edited February 14
    axisus said:
    domforr said:
    ... I live in hope (but not expectation) that one day this country will free itself from the WW2/Empire/British exceptionalism fantasies and engage with the modern world as a proper grown up country.  
    What, you mean like by leaving the European Union?
    Can you clarify how leaving the EU will help Britain overcome its historical delusions rather than entrenching them further? A grown up country (like a grown up human) comes to terms with its past, both good and bad and looks forward rather than backwards. For a positive view of the UK look at Danny Boyle's opening ceremony at the 2012 Olympics, rather than the Spitfires, Empire, 'we won the war...' blah blah that's being thrown about by the Daily Mail and its ilk. 

    The only positive I can see in Brexit is that the humiliation that has followed it may force Britain to have a rethink about who and what it is in the modern world. Dunkirk and Rorke's Drift don't cut it anymore I'm afraid. 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11019
    Fretwired said:
    Brexit comment fine. Chamberlin comment harsh. Whatever you think of the piece of paper it bought some time for the Spitfire to come into service and the Chain Home Radar System to come online. The two scenarios are different. Brexit is self-inflicted.
    I was being facetious purely for comparison comedy. I'm not in the camp that believes Chamberlain was weak. I've had numerous debates with Americans who asked why appeasement was even attempted: the simple answer is that there were plenty of memories of WW1 and appeasement was seen as better as having another bloody war. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11019
    ICBM said:

    But even if Brexit is an economic success beyond the wildest dreams of the most ardent Leavers, David Cameron deserves no credit for it. He also waltzed off as soon as he lost the referendum and has done nothing to help his successor - not that his help would be useful probably.

    He's more of a second Eden than a second Chamberlain - a man whose arrogance and incompetence led him to make a completely unnecessary mistake which seriously damaged Britain's position in the world.

    I'd say the scorn poured on Cameron is misdirected and you have to look at a specific group of people within his own party who got the referendum they wanted, who made it clear that a Leave victory would make Cameron's position untenable, and who are doing their upmost to look like arses now. 

    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  •  another bloody war. 
    all wars are bloody. I think it's part of the spec.
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