A message to Jean Claude Junker

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  • GarthyGarthy Frets: 1262
    Boromedic said:
    Yep, we would have been fooked without Chamberlin buying us vital time. That letter in the local paper is silly on numerous levels. 

    On another note, the Greeks deserved to be thrown under the bus as the way they were living was insane. The fact they were bailed out to preserve the european banks is little different to how we bailed out the UK banks. I don't personally agree we should have and Rome should have burned, but wtf do I know about economics......
    What do you think would have happened if HBOS, RBS and Lloyds weren't bailed out?
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  • Garthy said:
    What do you think would have happened if HBOS, RBS and Lloyds weren't bailed out?
    The people who had lost their savings would have rioted, and lynched the bastards who ran the banks? Might not have got their money back but apart from that could have been a preferable outcome ...
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs.
    Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 515
    edited February 14
    Garthy said:
    Boromedic said:
    Yep, we would have been fooked without Chamberlin buying us vital time. That letter in the local paper is silly on numerous levels. 

    On another note, the Greeks deserved to be thrown under the bus as the way they were living was insane. The fact they were bailed out to preserve the european banks is little different to how we bailed out the UK banks. I don't personally agree we should have and Rome should have burned, but wtf do I know about economics......
    What do you think would have happened if HBOS, RBS and Lloyds weren't bailed out?
    See above..... I figured the let Rome burn comment was self explanatory, to quote a famous movie: Some people just want to see the world burn, currently thats how I feel.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • Boromedic said:
    See above..... I figured the let Rome burn comment was self explanatory, to quote a famous movie: Some people just want to see the world burn, currently thats how I feel.
    Start small: incinerate Swindon and build from there. 
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 515
    Boromedic said:
    See above..... I figured the let Rome burn comment was self explanatory, to quote a famous movie: Some people just want to see the world burn, currently thats how I feel.
    Start small: incinerate Swindon and build from there. 
    Sounds like a plan.....

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 13099
    edited February 14
    p90fool said:
    ronnyb said:
    domforr said:
    Fits perfectly in line with the national mythology that Britain actually won the war single handedly, with minor roles being played by the Soviets and US. 

    It's no wonder that the rest of the continent looks at us with a bemused sigh and shakes its head sadly. I live in hope (but not expectation) that one day this country will free itself from the WW2/Empire/British exceptionalism fantasies and engage with the modern world as a proper grown up country.  
    Whilst agreeing with this, had Britain not held out against the Germans there would never have been a stepping stone for the invasion of Europe from the West and the outcome could have been very different. 
    In other words we distracted the bully by biting his knees until the big boys turned up.

    Given that the rest of the Europe moved on from that more than half a century ago it's a hell of a thing to base your national self esteem on.

    Ok that and some crackly old black and white footage of a football match. "They think it's all over", well yes actually. 
    Except my parents have a draw full of medals from relatives who died in the last war. A bit harsh on those who lived through it. My grandad was a fireman during the last war (too old to fight) and got seriously injured in Coventry as the bombs fell. Lost some fingers and most of his hearing.

    And the big boy comments are harsh. We were one of the big boys back then. Bomber Command crews suffered an extremely high casualty rate: 55,573 killed out of a total of 125,000 aircrew (a 44.4 percent death rate), a further 8,403 were wounded in action. They were bombing Germany for nearly three years before the Yanks entered the war.

    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 515
    I've been to the RAF/USAF memorials and the USAF hanger at Duxford. Both of them make you feel very humble at the level of sacrifice everyone made during them times. Figures on a page are eye watering but when you see the graves and names on the wall its absolutely terrifying. Thats just air force too, not including the other armed forces and homeland deaths. Scary stuff.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 28323
    Boromedic said:
    I've been to the RAF/USAF memorials and the USAF hanger at Duxford. Both of them make you feel very humble at the level of sacrifice everyone made during them times. Figures on a page are eye watering but when you see the graves and names on the wall its absolutely terrifying. Thats just air force too, not including the other armed forces and homeland deaths. Scary stuff.
    It is, but we do need to move on from it in the sense of it influencing our attitude to our neighbours.

    I am well aware of the sacrifice too, it's a bit closer to me than for most other people of my age - my father-in-law (who was in his fifties when my wife was born, so not her grandparents' generation but her parents) was at Dunkirk and was badly wounded, with comrades killed literally next to him. My 'Grandpa' (mum's stepfather) was a Polish Air Force mechanic who escaped from Poland in 1939 and joined the RAF, maintaining Hurricanes during the Battle Of Britain.

    We also need to remember that the original purpose of the EU was to prevent anything like that ever happening again.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 13099
    ICBM said:
    Boromedic said:
    I've been to the RAF/USAF memorials and the USAF hanger at Duxford. Both of them make you feel very humble at the level of sacrifice everyone made during them times. Figures on a page are eye watering but when you see the graves and names on the wall its absolutely terrifying. Thats just air force too, not including the other armed forces and homeland deaths. Scary stuff.
    It is, but we do need to move on from it in the sense of it influencing our attitude to our neighbours.

    I am well aware of the sacrifice too, it's a bit closer to me than for most other people of my age - my father-in-law (who was in his fifties when my wife was born, so not her grandparents' generation but her parents) was at Dunkirk and was badly wounded, with comrades killed literally next to him. My 'Grandpa' (mum's stepfather) was a Polish Air Force mechanic who escaped from Poland in 1939 and joined the RAF, maintaining Hurricanes during the Battle Of Britain.

    We also need to remember that the original purpose of the EU was to prevent anything like that ever happening again.
    I agree we need to move on but we don't know the age of the guy who wrote the letter, or what he has been through - the writers views are not shared by me nor, I would have thought, the majority of the population.


    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 515
    Yeah I agree on moving on especially as its been 70+ years now, respectful remembrance without it becoming all encompassing. Plus kudos to the formation of the EU comment, one of the reasons I voted remain in the end.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • Junker doesn't care about the war. He thinks it's something that happened 70+ years ago and we've all moved on. Little does he understand how so many haven't.

    What helps him sleep soundly at night is believing that there is no workable solution for the UK and Eire regarding open borders in Ireland that the DUP will accept. He thinks it's going to be unsolvable. I've no idea how everyone can be kept happy. We can't have a closed borders on the island of Ireland and we can't have border controls between N Ireland the rest of Britain and we can't stay in the Customs Union. Something has to give. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 28323
    Junker doesn't care about the war. He thinks it's something that happened 70+ years ago and we've all moved on. Little does he understand how so many haven't.

    What helps him sleep soundly at night is believing that there is no workable solution for the UK and Eire regarding open borders in Ireland that the DUP will accept. He thinks it's going to be unsolvable. I've no idea how everyone can be kept happy. We can't have a closed borders on the island of Ireland and we can't have border controls between N Ireland the rest of Britain and we can't stay in the Customs Union. Something has to give. 
    All that can be solved by re-joining the EFTA, either including the single market (like Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein) or with a bespoke arrangement (like Switzerland) - and which is *not* a customs union. All other than Iceland have land borders with the EU.

    The EU doesn't seem to want to give us the Swiss arrangement, but I think it would actually suit both us and them very well.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2552
    Junker doesn't care about the war. He thinks it's something that happened 70+ years ago and we've all moved on. Little does he understand how so many haven't.

    What helps him sleep soundly at night is believing that there is no workable solution for the UK and Eire regarding open borders in Ireland that the DUP will accept. He thinks it's going to be unsolvable. I've no idea how everyone can be kept happy. We can't have a closed borders on the island of Ireland and we can't have border controls between N Ireland the rest of Britain and we can't stay in the Customs Union. Something has to give. 
    I'm beginning to think that there may be only two possible solutions..
    pull out of the EU totally and put up the border in Ireland and try to come to a special arrangement with Eire
    or remain within the EU and don't change anything at all
    either way, a lot of people will get upset about it..
    what they seem to be aiming for right now is some sort halfway house to try to please everyone a bit..
    and it's doing the opposite.. it seems to be pssing off everyone

    our gov talks a lot but seems to be absolutely spineless
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • Clarky said:
    I'm beginning to think that there may be only two possible solutions..
    pull out of the EU totally and put up the border in Ireland and try to come to a special arrangement with Eire
    or remain within the EU and don't change anything at all
    either way, a lot of people will get upset about it..
    what they seem to be aiming for right now is some sort halfway house to try to please everyone a bit..
    and it's doing the opposite.. it seems to be pssing off everyone

    Who'd have thought that it was far more complex than then simple in or out scenario dished up to the electorate...  
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  • Junker doesn't care about the war. He thinks it's something that happened 70+ years ago and we've all moved on. Little does he understand how so many haven't.

    What helps him sleep soundly at night is believing that there is no workable solution for the UK and Eire regarding open borders in Ireland that the DUP will accept.
    The DUP really are a PITA. Why can't they accept that they are the descendants of people who were "bussed" in there by a monarch who thought he had the right to govern someone else's country, that they are not in their own country, and that ultimately they'll have to give way to the Irish majority?
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs.
    Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 6557
    Fretwired said:
    p90fool said:
    ronnyb said:
    domforr said:
    Fits perfectly in line with the national mythology that Britain actually won the war single handedly, with minor roles being played by the Soviets and US. 

    It's no wonder that the rest of the continent looks at us with a bemused sigh and shakes its head sadly. I live in hope (but not expectation) that one day this country will free itself from the WW2/Empire/British exceptionalism fantasies and engage with the modern world as a proper grown up country.  
    Whilst agreeing with this, had Britain not held out against the Germans there would never have been a stepping stone for the invasion of Europe from the West and the outcome could have been very different. 
    In other words we distracted the bully by biting his knees until the big boys turned up.

    Given that the rest of the Europe moved on from that more than half a century ago it's a hell of a thing to base your national self esteem on.

    Ok that and some crackly old black and white footage of a football match. "They think it's all over", well yes actually. 
    Except my parents have a draw full of medals from relatives who died in the last war. A bit harsh on those who lived through it. My grandad was a fireman during the last war (too old to fight) and got seriously injured in Coventry as the bombs fell. Lost some fingers and most of his hearing.

    And the big boy comments are harsh. We were one of the big boys back then. Bomber Command crews suffered an extremely high casualty rate: 55,573 killed out of a total of 125,000 aircrew (a 44.4 percent death rate), a further 8,403 were wounded in action. They were bombing Germany for nearly three years before the Yanks entered the war.

    I'm from a British military family, I've been evacuated from war zones twice, and have lost a good few members of my family during and since the second world war. I grew up obsessed with it, and my knowledge of how and why it happened and what happened to whom is fairly extensive.

    My parents grew up fatherless in concrete prefabs, we still played around staircases sticking out of the rubble when I was a kid. It's part of my psyche, and probably yours and many others on this forum, but I fail to see how banging on about it in 2018 during trade negotiations with countries who suffered much worse effects from it than we did helps anyone. 

    I've mentioned this before, but my landlord when I lived in France was captured along with his brother and sent to a slave labour camp in Leipzig during the war. His brother died from the beatings, the cold and starvation, but he survived the war. He had a German guest staying in his B&B when I lived there around the same age as him, who had fought in the infantry and happened to be stationed in Leipzig at the same time as my friend and his brother were being beaten and starved by his countrymen. 

    With a mixture of schoolboy French, German and English we all got slowly pissed together, and they ended the evening in floods of genuine tears with their arms around each other, not just with forgiveness, but actual bonding over what had happened to them. Lest WHO forget, exactly?

    So whenever I hear of some pig ignorant "up yours Delors" cunt banging the drum about how "we" saved their arses and we need to pull up the shutters, all I can think is that for my entire lifetime borders have been coming down, travel has become easier, and physical movement and the internet has made the world seem smaller and friendlier than ever, all the way up to June 23rd 2016 when the whole thing suddenly lurched into reverse due to an internal Tory Party power struggle.  

    I'm actually not a pacifist, am too cynical to even be a proper socialist and have friends from across the political spectrum, but I don't think I'll ever forgive what 17 million Little Englanders are trying to do to the continent I and my French and German friends live in.  


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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 515
    Wiz awarded, couldn't agree more.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2552
    Clarky said:
    I'm beginning to think that there may be only two possible solutions..
    pull out of the EU totally and put up the border in Ireland and try to come to a special arrangement with Eire
    or remain within the EU and don't change anything at all
    either way, a lot of people will get upset about it..
    what they seem to be aiming for right now is some sort halfway house to try to please everyone a bit..
    and it's doing the opposite.. it seems to be pssing off everyone

    Who'd have thought that it was far more complex than then simple in or out scenario dished up to the electorate...  
    kinda makes you think that the nation was duped months before the vote...
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • Clarky said:
    kinda makes you think that the nation was duped years before the vote...
    in 1975, to be precise
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs.
    Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!
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  • @p90fool an excellent post. Very well said. 
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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 2078
    axisus said:
    Saw this today ....




    WWII - that thing where a Conservative Prime Minister went to Germany in the hope of brokering an agreement based on appeasement. He returned with a piece of paper which wasn't worth anything, and eventually was forced to resign after much pissing by Conservative colleagues. A new Prime Minister came in, Britain dug in and fought until the country was on its knees, eventually being forced to rely on foreign countries to bail her out of the shit. 

    Brexit - that thing where a Conservative Prime Minister went to Brussels in the hope of brokering an agreement based on appeasement. He returned with a piece of paper which wasn't worth anything, and eventually was forced to resign after much pissing by Conservative colleagues. A new Prime Minister came in, Britain dug in and fought until the country was on its knees. 

    So we're in the shit and just waiting for the foreigners again. 
    Chamberlin gets a rough deal. He knew full well we had run down our defences so badly after WW1 that any kind of confrontation will Herr Hitler would have been stupid in the extreem. Never pick a fight you can't win.
    Neville Chamberlin stood on the tarmac waiving a piece of paper, then  immediatly upped the production of armements (against the wishes of some in parlement), built ports, airfields, developed new weapons at a rate few would believe. He bought time for this country, set it on course to survive and got a raw deal. Drive about east anglia and see all the brick hangers and concrete runways that were built in the 1930s expansion period, very physical evidence of the reality. Once wat started the airfields became nissen huts or prefab concrete, most of those have rotted away, the likes of Bircham Newton are testiment to the investment made.

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 13099
    p90fool said:


    I'm from a British military family, I've been evacuated from war zones twice, and have lost a good few members of my family during and since the second world war. I grew up obsessed with it, and my knowledge of how and why it happened and what happened to whom is fairly extensive.

    My parents grew up fatherless in concrete prefabs, we still played around staircases sticking out of the rubble when I was a kid. It's part of my psyche, and probably yours and many others on this forum, but I fail to see how banging on about it in 2018 during trade negotiations with countries who suffered much worse effects from it than we did helps anyone. 

    I've mentioned this before, but my landlord when I lived in France was captured along with his brother and sent to a slave labour camp in Leipzig during the war. His brother died from the beatings, the cold and starvation, but he survived the war. He had a German guest staying in his B&B when I lived there around the same age as him, who had fought in the infantry and happened to be stationed in Leipzig at the same time as my friend and his brother were being beaten and starved by his countrymen. 

    With a mixture of schoolboy French, German and English we all got slowly pissed together, and they ended the evening in floods of genuine tears with their arms around each other, not just with forgiveness, but actual bonding over what had happened to them. Lest WHO forget, exactly?

    So whenever I hear of some pig ignorant "up yours Delors" cunt banging the drum about how "we" saved their arses and we need to pull up the shutters, all I can think is that for my entire lifetime borders have been coming down, travel has become easier, and physical movement and the internet has made the world seem smaller and friendlier than ever, all the way up to June 23rd 2016 when the whole thing suddenly lurched into reverse due to an internal Tory Party power struggle.  

    I'm actually not a pacifist, am too cynical to even be a proper socialist and have friends from across the political spectrum, but I don't think I'll ever forgive what 17 million Little Englanders are trying to do to the continent I and my French and German friends live in.  


    Fine until you got to Little Englanders .. only 15,188,406 in England voted to leave;  a majority of people in Wales voted to leave and whilst Scotland voted to remain the vote was close with 1,018,322 voting to leave and similarly in N Ireland most voted to remain but 349,442 voted to leave.  Ever thought to ask why they voted the way they did?

    In fairness to the letter writing he was responding to Junker - yes it was crass but neither the UK government nor the EU are covering themselves in glory and things are likely to get rockier as I have just heard it looks like Merkel will fall so Germany will be plunged into economic chaos.

    Blame Cameron - he let the Jeanie out of the bottle.


    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • I thought it was just as emotional as a "Little Englander" who's hankering after the "good old Empire days". As for the "continent I and my French and German friends live in" it's more a case of the "continent my French and German friends live on" which is across that big wet thing from the Island I live on.

    "Little Englander" is an unfair jibe at the people who are quite happy to have European friends, to trade with them, cooperate with them for security against terrorists and other criminals, to have cultural exchange with them and trade ideas in art, philosophy, science etc, but who wish to retain political, fiscal, and economic independence. That shouldn't be too much to ask.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs.
    Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 6557
    edited February 16
    Fretwired said:  Ever thought to ask why they voted the way they did? 

    Everyone HAS asked, ad nauseum.

    We can ask why most farmers voted to leave the organisation which keeps them in business, we can ask why the poorest economic regions all voted to leave despite ANY uncertainty in our economic climate always hitting them hardest, we can ask why the most poorly educated, politically ignorant all voted to leave (a self-answering question if ever there was one), and we will get precisely nowhere, because it doesn't make any fucking sense. 

    It's a total shit fest, those who voted remain will say told you so, and those who voted leave will say it's because the remainers are not letting us leave properly. 

    There are some well-informed, rational leave voters on this very forum who have made me question some of my assumptions and prejudices and made a lifelong Europhile like me aware of some of the long overdue changes which would've been necessary anyway, but on the whole those fuckers who regard Human Rights as "red tape" have led great swathes of I'm-not-racist-buts down a blind alley, while blaming the resulting mess on everyone who fought tooth and nail to try and stop them. 


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  • domforrdomforr Frets: 107
    That's a pretty generous description of a Little Englander and certainly not one that most people would recognize as being associated with the term. Small minded, xenophobic and insular is more akin to the type of sentiments associated with Little England. For those that were oppressed by England, hankering for the good old Empire days is a bit like Germans hankering for the good old Reich days. 
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  • ESBlonde said:
    Chamberlin gets a rough deal. He knew full well we had run down our defences so badly after WW1 that any kind of confrontation will Herr Hitler would have been stupid in the extreem. Never pick a fight you can't win.
    Neville Chamberlin stood on the tarmac waiving a piece of paper, then  immediatly upped the production of armements (against the wishes of some in parlement), built ports, airfields, developed new weapons at a rate few would believe. He bought time for this country, set it on course to survive and got a raw deal. Drive about east anglia and see all the brick hangers and concrete runways that were built in the 1930s expansion period, very physical evidence of the reality. Once wat started the airfields became nissen huts or prefab concrete, most of those have rotted away, the likes of Bircham Newton are testiment to the investment made.

    I know all of that. My quoted comment was for comedy value rather than historic accuracy. 
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  • Fretwired said:


    Fine until you got to Little Englanders .. only 15,188,406 in England voted to leave;  a majority of people in Wales voted to leave and whilst Scotland voted to remain the vote was close with 1,018,322 voting to leave and similarly in N Ireland most voted to remain but 349,442 voted to leave.  Ever thought to ask why they voted the way they did?

    In fairness to the letter writing he was responding to Junker - yes it was crass but neither the UK government nor the EU are covering themselves in glory and things are likely to get rockier as I have just heard it looks like Merkel will fall so Germany will be plunged into economic chaos.

    Blame Cameron - he let the Jeanie out of the bottle.




    DC ended up as Prime Minister in 2010 with an election manifesto that contained nothing about an "In or Out" referendum promise. A year later in 2011, he was hit by a rather large petition.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14834871

    You'll recognise many of the usual names involved. Chope, Hoey, Hollobone. Going back through a Google search limited to 2010-11, you see how the pressure was ramped up to hold this referendum. David Nuttall speaking on 24 Oct 2011, coming two days after Graham Brady wrote in the Telegraph about the need for a referendum. 111 MPs voted against the Government. 

    Cameron didn't let some unwanted genie out of the bottle: it was a genie that a large amount of his party wanted and were determined to bring about. DC was a liberal Tory leader and the traditional Conservatives didn't like that. If they end up with a turncoat shitebag like Boris, so be it. 
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 5176
    they can end up with Boris and that's fine, however I fear we will end up with him and that's not fine at all.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • johnnyurqjohnnyurq Frets: 1329
    Fretwired said:
    p90fool said:


    I'm from a British military family, I've been evacuated from war zones twice, and have lost a good few members of my family during and since the second world war. I grew up obsessed with it, and my knowledge of how and why it happened and what happened to whom is fairly extensive.

    My parents grew up fatherless in concrete prefabs, we still played around staircases sticking out of the rubble when I was a kid. It's part of my psyche, and probably yours and many others on this forum, but I fail to see how banging on about it in 2018 during trade negotiations with countries who suffered much worse effects from it than we did helps anyone. 

    I've mentioned this before, but my landlord when I lived in France was captured along with his brother and sent to a slave labour camp in Leipzig during the war. His brother died from the beatings, the cold and starvation, but he survived the war. He had a German guest staying in his B&B when I lived there around the same age as him, who had fought in the infantry and happened to be stationed in Leipzig at the same time as my friend and his brother were being beaten and starved by his countrymen. 

    With a mixture of schoolboy French, German and English we all got slowly pissed together, and they ended the evening in floods of genuine tears with their arms around each other, not just with forgiveness, but actual bonding over what had happened to them. Lest WHO forget, exactly?

    So whenever I hear of some pig ignorant "up yours Delors" cunt banging the drum about how "we" saved their arses and we need to pull up the shutters, all I can think is that for my entire lifetime borders have been coming down, travel has become easier, and physical movement and the internet has made the world seem smaller and friendlier than ever, all the way up to June 23rd 2016 when the whole thing suddenly lurched into reverse due to an internal Tory Party power struggle.  

    I'm actually not a pacifist, am too cynical to even be a proper socialist and have friends from across the political spectrum, but I don't think I'll ever forgive what 17 million Little Englanders are trying to do to the continent I and my French and German friends live in.  


    Fine until you got to Little Englanders .. only 15,188,406 in England voted to leave;  a majority of people in Wales voted to leave and whilst Scotland voted to remain the vote was close with 1,018,322 voting to leave and similarly in N Ireland most voted to remain but 349,442 voted to leave.  Ever thought to ask why they voted the way they did?

    In fairness to the letter writing he was responding to Junker - yes it was crass but neither the UK government nor the EU are covering themselves in glory and things are likely to get rockier as I have just heard it looks like Merkel will fall so Germany will be plunged into economic chaos.

    Blame Cameron - he let the Jeanie out of the bottle.




    Must be a new definition of close I am not familiar with given it was 62% to 38% here. if that was close what was the national result? Fag paper width close by your thinking above.

    As ever the floundering revisionist I see.


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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 13099
    johnnyurq said:
    Fretwired said:
    p90fool said:


    I'm from a British military family, I've been evacuated from war zones twice, and have lost a good few members of my family during and since the second world war. I grew up obsessed with it, and my knowledge of how and why it happened and what happened to whom is fairly extensive.

    My parents grew up fatherless in concrete prefabs, we still played around staircases sticking out of the rubble when I was a kid. It's part of my psyche, and probably yours and many others on this forum, but I fail to see how banging on about it in 2018 during trade negotiations with countries who suffered much worse effects from it than we did helps anyone. 

    I've mentioned this before, but my landlord when I lived in France was captured along with his brother and sent to a slave labour camp in Leipzig during the war. His brother died from the beatings, the cold and starvation, but he survived the war. He had a German guest staying in his B&B when I lived there around the same age as him, who had fought in the infantry and happened to be stationed in Leipzig at the same time as my friend and his brother were being beaten and starved by his countrymen. 

    With a mixture of schoolboy French, German and English we all got slowly pissed together, and they ended the evening in floods of genuine tears with their arms around each other, not just with forgiveness, but actual bonding over what had happened to them. Lest WHO forget, exactly?

    So whenever I hear of some pig ignorant "up yours Delors" cunt banging the drum about how "we" saved their arses and we need to pull up the shutters, all I can think is that for my entire lifetime borders have been coming down, travel has become easier, and physical movement and the internet has made the world seem smaller and friendlier than ever, all the way up to June 23rd 2016 when the whole thing suddenly lurched into reverse due to an internal Tory Party power struggle.  

    I'm actually not a pacifist, am too cynical to even be a proper socialist and have friends from across the political spectrum, but I don't think I'll ever forgive what 17 million Little Englanders are trying to do to the continent I and my French and German friends live in.  


    Fine until you got to Little Englanders .. only 15,188,406 in England voted to leave;  a majority of people in Wales voted to leave and whilst Scotland voted to remain the vote was close with 1,018,322 voting to leave and similarly in N Ireland most voted to remain but 349,442 voted to leave.  Ever thought to ask why they voted the way they did?

    In fairness to the letter writing he was responding to Junker - yes it was crass but neither the UK government nor the EU are covering themselves in glory and things are likely to get rockier as I have just heard it looks like Merkel will fall so Germany will be plunged into economic chaos.

    Blame Cameron - he let the Jeanie out of the bottle.




    Must be a new definition of close I am not familiar with given it was 62% to 38% here. if that was close what was the national result? Fag paper width close by your thinking above.

    As ever the floundering revisionist I see.


    I wondered what the smell was ...

    There's around 4,138,345 people north of the border listed on the electoral register - 1,661,191 voted to remain while 1,018,322 voted to leave. There was only 640,000 votes in it with 1.4 million who odd didn't vote.

    My fault I admit - I do apologise. I forgot Scotland is a small part of the UK. The way you shout you'd sometimes think there's 30 million of you. I got confused.


    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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