Nels Cline jazzy goodness

Lebarque

I'm not much of a jazzer, but I love this guy (especially his Wilco stuff). Wow for this vid...

brooom

Thanks for posting, I hadn't seen this. There's something odd about Nels playing, I've had the opportunity to see Wilco live, it bored the living shit out of me. He also plays with other guys I really like (like Julien Lage in this video), but even more important to me, with Jim Campilongo. However I can never truly enjoyed is phrasing, tone or ideas. There's an undefinable quality to his playing and the sounds his making, that I simple can't enjoy or appreciate.

I'm sorry this sounds so negative, after you posted a cool video, just can't get into this guy's playing for some reason.

JD50

Wow Phil Collins is a pretty decent bass player, who knew?

I heard some of Julian Lages new tunes recently which I really enjoyed, harder edge than his last album.

What guitar is Nels playing in this vid, partsmaster?

octatonic

Bassist is Scott Colley- he's played with Metheny, Brecker and loads of other people.

Some great players in the Nels Cline 4.
Nels chose guys who are probably better than him, not that he is a slouch at all.

Have to say though that I put this in the same category as I do a lot of 'research music'- I'm glad people are doing it but I don't necessarily want to hear a whole lot of it, to at least only in small doses.

There is a wilful lack of consonance that makes it hard going and abrasive.
On the abrasive continuum you eventually end up with Kaiser, Bailey and such and that I have no time at all for.
I don't need everything to be flowers and puppies but sometimes I just want to listen to somewhat that isn't making so many demands.

stickyfiddle

@JD50 guitar is a Bilt Zaftig

Re the music, I have to agree with the others. I like that it exists, but I also like that I don't have to listen it. It's quite hard work...

impmann

Hmmm - its exactly the sort of 'jazz' that I detest. Noodly, directionless twaddle that only "smart kids" will get because the disonance is a very clever musical "joke" between muso's musos. The bass player and drummer are by and large playing a different tune to the guitarists, who seem oblivious to the concept of "1" in relation to time (and yes, I totally understand that its deliberate and "very clever").

Sorry, but its just self-satisfied musical wanking.

I love Nels Cline's stuff with Wilco and I loved the "Lovers" album. But that does nothing for me whatsoever.

carlos

brooom said:

I'm sorry this sounds so negative, after you posted a cool video, just can't get into this guy's playing for some reason.

I think it's a fair comment. But see below...

impmann said:

Hmmm - its exactly the sort of 'jazz' that I detest. Noodly, directionless twaddle that only "smart kids" will get because the disonance is a very clever musical "joke" between muso's musos. 

If it's "jazz", sure, why not. It's got a head played at the beginning and end which sets up improvised solos in the middle. That's jazz enough for me to call it jazz. It's not in the fake book, but then again most tunes in current fake book were not there to start with.

The bass player and drummer are by and large playing a different tune to the guitarists, who seem oblivious to the concept of "1" in relation to time (and yes, I totally understand that its deliberate and "very clever").

No, they're not. They're playing on the 1 quite a lot and sometimes drifting over it. Harmonically, I'd say much more than half of the solo is keeping to what the bass player is playing. You know Cline will have written a chord chart for this, right?

I wouldn't say it's clever or not clever, but if that's where your musical sensibility takes you, then why not? You're assuming this whole in-joke thing when the easier answer is that it's what these guys like to play. Both Lage and Cline have shown they can play straight music very well, but here they decide to transgress a little. It's not clever or dumb, it's just what they wanted to play.

Sorry, but its just self-satisfied musical wanking.

Isn't that any originals project? Your creating something which pleases you first and then hoping the audience has a similar taste. Call it wanking, call it being true to what you like. Either way, you're assuming a lot about the musicians. Just say you don't like because a), b) and c) and be done with it.

Winny_Pooh

octatonic said:

Bassist is Scott Colley- he's played with Metheny, Brecker and loads of other people.

Some great players in the Nels Cline 4.
Nels chose guys who are probably better than him, not that he is a slouch at all.

Have to say though that I put this in the same category as I do a lot of 'research music'- I'm glad people are doing it but I don't necessarily want to hear a whole lot of it, to at least only in small doses.

There is a wilful lack of consonance that makes it hard going and abrasive.
On the abrasive continuum you eventually end up with Kaiser, Bailey and such and that I have no time at all for.
I don't need everything to be flowers and puppies but sometimes I just want to listen to somewhat that isn't making so many demands.

100% agreement here 

impmann

OK, some nice cherry picking there, @carlos ;;

I'll just pick up on your final point... "Isn't that any originals project?"  No... its not, far from it.  I write a lot of stuff that is just for me - so call that musical wanking if you like, but I don't share that with anyone else. Am I self-satisfied by it... hmm, not entirely but thats whole different conversation. This has been shared with everyone - so its a performance. And its not really 'connecting' with me (and from the tone of a lot of other people's replies, few others) so its shared wanking - never a good thing to share your wanking with others because its not really sex and its not something that's comfortable to watch, as its all about self satisfaction. ;-)

I'm aware of what they are doing - I'm aware that its technically very impressive (and yes, I'm sure Nels has chord charts for it). That doesn't take away from the fact that to the listener, the middle improvised solos are tuneless, directionless and not very interesting. I'm also well aware as a Wilco fan that Nels can play 'straight' music - although his contributions tend to subvert otherwise slightly ploddy songs, imho, so perhaps that constraint brings out the best in him... to my ears.

So I'm not assuming a lot about the musicians and no, I don't like it. However, as someone who is a massive fan of Fripp, Beefheart etc perhaps you are assuming a lot of me. ;-)

Dominic

If this is Jazz,then I hate it even more than the Jamie Callum show on the radio.I do enjoy more traditional jazz and "dinner jazz" and could listen to Benson,Charlie Cristian,Kampfaert,Joe Pass etc all day .
I'm sure a computer algorithm would play the same thing on random generation .I'm sure they are great musicians but this just isn't music to me......it's just a dissonant din .
it's not big and it's not clever
That Bilt guitar sounds awful too

carlos

@impmann said:

OK, some nice cherry picking there, @carlos ;

I'm quoting what you wrote and we're having a polite, civilised conversation. At least on this side of the screen we are.

as its all about self satisfaction. 

Sure, but I want to listen to musicians who are being satisfied (!) by what they're playing. I don't want to listen to people who are not happy with what they're playing. If this is what these 4 guys want to play, then let them! I don't think they're patronising us with their cleverness or dissonance. 

It might be that my taste is not the same as theirs, fair enough, there's plenty of music to choose from.

Speaking of satisfaction, that's why I detest most classical music performances. Most classical musicians I've met are clock watchers when they play as they're paid per hour rates for rehearsals and performances. Clock hits the hour and they're packing their stuff straightaway. Fair enough, but music should be more about passion than just a trade. Perhaps I'd be like this too if I was playing the same Beethoven stuff from when I was 12 until my retirement age.

to the listener, 

Who's this listener? You're conjuring him out of thin air but in the end it's you and your opinion. There must be a market for Nels out there as he keeps pumping out his music not just the Wilco stuff. What did you think of his album Room with Lage?

the middle improvised solos are tuneless, directionless and not very interesting

To me, both these gents have produced better and done it recently. I guess the punchline is that I didn't like this either, but that's just me. I do appreciate people playing what they want to play.

And come on, you cannot say you hate self satisfied musical wanking and music that tries hard to be clever and then say you like Capt Beefheart. Trout Mask is LITERALLY a record built on trying (and actually being) clever and difficult! Fripp wrote loads on his theory for how guitar should be played. Surely, that's trying to be clever, too... and self-satisfied with it.

impmann

TBH, @carlos... you clearly didn't get the joke from the analogy I was making, so I'll quit while I'm behind.

I didn't like it. End of. :-)

Kilgore

Those crazy cats can play.
Nice!

meltedbuzzbox

I actually liked that. 

BigLicks67

Surprised by some of the comments tbh. Seems pretty straight ahead stuff, which put me in mind of John Scofield. Pretty good riff to start off and no more dissonant than a 10 minute Coltrane solo.

oh_pollo

Love Nels Cline and saw Julian Lage last month. This is terrific.

failed_astronaut

BigLicks67 said:

Surprised by some of the comments tbh. Seems pretty straight ahead stuff, which put me in mind of John Scofield. Pretty good riff to start off and no more dissonant than a 10 minute Coltrane solo.

Kind of sums up my feelings as well. I couldn't listen to it all night but the opening section was fun and the solos were great and endless noodle tests as some of the comments would have you believe. Reminded a bit of the South Park theme tune in fact and I'm speaking as someone who has spent some time in the world of jazz, so I appreciate the talent involved.

carlos

 

hobbio

I liked some parts and I didn't like others. As a whole, that video wasn't easy but I'm glad I listened to it. Not sure if I'll go for round 2 though.

jonnyburgo

Nels  is a brilliant player who lets face it can play any style, he just chooses the road less travelled a lot of the time and why not?

Grocer_Jack

Wow - I was expecting a directionless skronk-fest after reading the comments in this thread.i thought it was very accessible and a great listen. I wasn't that keen on the Tele guy's solo, but overall I loved it. The rhythm section are terrific.