Special School troubles - Update

munckee

Interested in @Legionreturns view if we're being played by the schools if you don't mind and if its your area. 

My son is autistic and has to leave his current school this year because he is 11.  His current school recommended a nice special school near us which has various specialist autism units. The word on the street is they do not tolerate any anti social behaviour.  My son is not mean or vindictive but when stress gets too much he cannot control his behaviour.

 We applied they gave him a place with no mention of his provision. I queries this with the LA saying I do not want him to not have the right provision and get kicked out straight away.  I said he is very stressed about the transition and he would need much assistance.

Without telling us they arranged a transition meeting and took him with some other kids to the new school for a visit.  It was too much for him and he lost it and tried to run away, they stopped him and he apparently hurt 5 adults.  Lo and behold the new school are saying they are withdrawing his offer and that basically leaves him going to the prison school for kids with behavioural problems that I have always dreaded them suggesting.

We have meetings with the LA and both schools but I suddenly feel like it was the plan all along but they knew we would never agree to the prison school.

Legionreturns

This is probably a bigger chat than is sensible having here, if you want to whatsapp or talk on the phone I'd be happy to, just drop me a PM. 

What I would say is that SEMH schools are not all the same, there are degrees as with all things. It sounds to me like a nurture group within an SEMH school would be the appropriate provision for your son, but on the other hand if he's been in mainstream education up until now then he can clearly cope with it. 

You'll obviously know that routine and familiarity are a huge deal for kids on the spectrum, but not knowing your lad I wouldn't like to hazard an uneducated guess about what's best for him. 

Like I say though, I do have lots of experience with both SEMH and ASD and would be more than happy to chat about it for a completely outside opinion. 

jonnyburgo

I work at a specialist residential school on the residential side. I often have to go down into the school though and to be honest if your school can’t cope with a bit of a “kick off” then they probably aren’t worth bothering with. That’s just everyday stuff in this game. Our school isn’t a “prison school” but it is up in the hills so any runners usually find themselves knee deep in sheep shit before they get to the main road.

Hope you get things sorted. It must be a stress for you all mate.

munckee

Thanks for your comments @Legionreturns and @jonnyburgo ;

My wife spoke to the headmaster of his current school late yesterday who said to her "off the record, I would have to deny this conversation if you repeated it" that he and the head of the new proposed school both already knew that the new school they recommended to us was not the right setting for him to go to. 

There is another school (which I never knew existed) which is a private school which caters for autistic kids with emotional difficulties.- they are not allowed to recommend it to us because of the potential cost to the LA but if we fight hard enough and long enough the LA would possibly cave in and send him there.

We had similar when he first started school and went to mainstream for the first two years which everyone said was a great idea, it was a disaster and he spent all day every day sat in a corner facing away from the class with a one to one in the  name of "inclusion".  The mainstream school sat us down and said everyone knew it was going to fly but the way the system works is you had to prove it didn't work before the LA would provide the right setting.

So once again my little boy is a pawn in game of poker between different areas of the education system regardless of the damage to his well being.  He thinks he is going to that new school and despite his episode yesterday will be gutted if he can't go there.  He said to me last night "Their right dad everything is my fault"

Its lucky for them I'm into guitar playing and not rifle shooting....

bloodandtears

He said to me last night "Their right dad everything is my fault"

Heartbreaking... This epitomises everything that's wrong with some social services systems... bureaucracy before the child's needs...

LuttiS

So sorry to hear this matey, my nephew is on the spectrum too, he's only 7 and the school have all but given up on him.. Was supposed to go to a special school but now that's been denied to him.
Apparently they are now trying to teach him life skills as he has no chance of catching up or even getting on a basic level of where his class is. 
He too gets horribly stressed at school, and i imagine it will only get worse. His mum is in constant battle trying to get him the help he's been promised. 

I really hope you get something sorted. 

bodhi

Sorry to hear about this.  My son is autistic, non-verbal, has lots of developmental issues, but reading this I'll count my blessings that he is quite a happy-go-lucky chappy and ended up in a special school which is a great match for him.

I hope you get this sorted out, I really do.

axisus

That sounds terrible. I have a lot of sympathy for these problems as my wife works in a special needs school, so I hear about a lot of kids and a lot of issues. One of my sons displays autistic symptoms, he got through school but I worry about where he is going in life. 

munckee

bodhi said:

Sorry to hear about this.  My son is autistic, non-verbal, has lots of developmental issues, but reading this I'll count my blessings that he is quite a happy-go-lucky chappy and ended up in a special school which is a great match for him.

I hope you get this sorted out, I really do.

My son is happy go lucky when everything is going his way : )  Its the unknown that's too much for him.

bodhi

Yeah, I understand.  My son seems up for the unknown, and has a bit of a reckless streak with little appreciation for danger, so you have to be really careful and keep an eye on him at all times.

Good luck, mate - holding thumbs that you'll get it sorted out.

Chalky

I have two kids with moderately severe autism, both in special needs so I wish the best of luck to you and your lad. We have always had faultless support from our LA, the school and the specialists, so I'd hope you get the same. 

There are times when things get very difficult, and very stressful, when its easy to get suspicious about people's motivations in the process. But over the years its turned out for us that everyone is doing their best in difficult circumstances.  Definitely had some people go the extra mile for us and genuinely tried to do the best for our kids.

Autism is shit, no magic wands, no cures, no fixes.  So outcomes are never going to be more than, well, satisfactory.  Constant balancing act between optimism and realism.

jonnyburgo

We have a house for autistic kids in our place and they can be very challenging. The best way to approach it from my point of view (as support staff) is that if you have one good day and the kids are happy then that’s great. And if you have a bad day then you have to trace back and see if you can find the triggers, sometimes that isn’t easy as Autism doesn’t fit neatly into a box and each kid is very different, there is no such thing as “typical” autism. One kid may need lots of order whilst another can live with a level of disorder quite happily. It’s vwry tough and I can only take my hat off to you guys who are parents. Our kids have the double whammy of also being in the care system so have all the rejection and self esteem issues to try to make sense of as well. 

munckee

jonnyburgo said:

We have a house for autistic kids in our place and they can be very challenging. The best way to approach it from my point of view (as support staff) is that if you have one good day and the kids are happy then that’s great. And if you have a bad day then you have to trace back and see if you can find the triggers, sometimes that isn’t easy as Autism doesn’t fit neatly into a box and each kid is very different, there is no such thing as “typical” autism. One kid may need lots of order whilst another can live with a level of disorder quite happily. It’s vwry tough and I can only take my hat off to you guys who are parents. Our kids have the double whammy of also being in the care system so have all the rejection and self esteem issues to try to make sense of as well. 

My son has two parents on his team, my daughter, wife's parents and my brother are totally amazing with him and between us we will take on whatever challenges with schools and the like that come up,  despite this he still he gets really stressed with life causing him to lie on the floor and bang his head, slap himself while repeating quotes from tv programmes like in rainman etc. 
  
I can't even contemplate what life must be like for autistic kids without that kind of family support poor little guys.

mr-mac

Not sure if same in England as Scotland but you need to phone the education board in your area and speak to them.  He should have a educational psychologist or similar assigned to him if his autism causes him issues of that nature and i belive legally now parents views have to be taken into account.

don't want to talk bad of school that withdrew offer but their specialist units wouldn't fill me with any confidence if they seem to have zero idea how to handle and react to behavioural aspects of autism and suggest he would likely be better somewhere else that doesn't get up in his face and bring out worst.

i also recommend checking Facebook to see if any local groups for autism as you can ask for feedback on local schools, provision, your rights and exactly who you need to speak to from others who already went through it.

good luck man, i know your torment and struggle, my wee lad is 8, non verbal, no concept of danger, hyper and a flight risk.  We had to put our foot down to get him in a specialist school and not mainstream with a small unit.

Let us ken how you get on.

john

bodhi

Chalky said:

We have always had faultless support from our LA, the school and the specialists, so I'd hope you get the same. 
...
But over the years its turned out for us that everyone is doing their best in difficult circumstances.  Definitely had some people go the extra mile for us and genuinely tried to do the best for our kids.
...
Constant balancing act between optimism and realism.

Our experience has been the same.  We've had a lot of support along the way, and never had any cause for complaint.

I have come across other parents who appear unwilling to accept their reality, which has caused them a lot of ongoing heartache, e.g. insisting on their kids going into mainstream education as if they will "grow out of it".  Not saying this applies to anyone here, of course, but I've seen this and it's quite upsetting, really.

In the meantime our son went to a specialist school, and he has made great progress relative to his abilities.  Last night he accidentally hurt his sister, and signed "sorry" without us having to prompt him.  A small thing, but it's progress.

Chalky

bodhi said:

In the meantime our son went to a specialist school, and he has made great progress relative to his abilities.  Last night he accidentally hurt his sister, and signed "sorry" without us having to prompt him.  A small thing, but it's progress.

Standing at school a couple of weeks ago and a few of us parents were in tears. Why? Because one parent had the wonderful news that their 7 year old lad had pee'd on the toilet for the first time in his life.  Progress is incredibly slow but when it happens its truly bloody marvellous!

bodhi

Chalky said:
Standing at school a couple of weeks ago and a few of us parents were in tears. Why? Because one parent had the wonderful news that their 7 year old lad had pee'd on the toilet for the first time in his life.  Progress is incredibly slow but when it happens its truly bloody marvellous!

Yep, being in this situation really does often make you appreciate and celebrate the little things in life.  Such as the pee you speak of.

  

We're still a bit hit and miss in that particular regard, but we'll get there eventually.

munckee

My son can go to the toilet during the day but wets the bed a lot.  We were using night time adult nappies but he hates them so he promised to try his hardest in exchange for no nappy.  In times of stress (like now) he has a lot of accidents.

Heartfeltdawn

munckee said:

Interested in @Legionreturns view if we're being played by the schools if you don't mind and if its your area. 

My son is autistic and has to leave his current school this year because he is 11.  His current school recommended a nice special school near us which has various specialist autism units. The word on the street is they do not tolerate any anti social behaviour.  My son is not mean or vindictive but when stress gets too much he cannot control his behaviour.

 We applied they gave him a place with no mention of his provision. I queries this with the LA saying I do not want him to not have the right provision and get kicked out straight away.  I said he is very stressed about the transition and he would need much assistance.

Without telling us they arranged a transition meeting and took him with some other kids to the new school for a visit.  It was too much for him and he lost it and tried to run away, they stopped him and he apparently hurt 5 adults.  Lo and behold the new school are saying they are withdrawing his offer and that basically leaves him going to the prison school for kids with behavioural problems that I have always dreaded them suggesting.

We have meetings with the LA and both schools but I suddenly feel like it was the plan all along but they knew we would never agree to the prison school.

Parent of an 8 year old ASD boy here with some experience with SEN issues and procedures so I get your concerns. 

Firstly, you should complain in writing to the relevant authorities over this move. An unscheduled meeting like that is totally out of order. 

Secondly, it is frustrating to be bounced around because educational systems. We had the difficulty of discovering that the recently departed on maternity leave SENCO hadn't actually done her job over the last year and had failed to action certain procedures. 

Thirdly, you say the special school doesn't tolerate any ASB. If so, then you should query in writing again why the offer was withdrawn and the school's policy regarding ASB (personally I wouldn't class it as ASB. It's a symptom of autism, the physical fleeing response, not him trying to start shit with other people). 

Why do you dread the prison school? You might find that it turns out to be the right environment for him. Autism has no certain easy pathway. Something you might consider wrong for him may be successful. 

Axe_meister

Where abouts are you based?
Basically search for all Autism Specialist schools in your area and fight the LEA to get him into one. We have fought tooth and Nail to get my son into one. Took 4 years of fighting

munckee

Heartfeltdawn said:

munckee said:

Interested in @Legionreturns view if we're being played by the schools if you don't mind and if its your area. 

My son is autistic and has to leave his current school this year because he is 11.  His current school recommended a nice special school near us which has various specialist autism units. The word on the street is they do not tolerate any anti social behaviour.  My son is not mean or vindictive but when stress gets too much he cannot control his behaviour.

 We applied they gave him a place with no mention of his provision. I queries this with the LA saying I do not want him to not have the right provision and get kicked out straight away.  I said he is very stressed about the transition and he would need much assistance.

Without telling us they arranged a transition meeting and took him with some other kids to the new school for a visit.  It was too much for him and he lost it and tried to run away, they stopped him and he apparently hurt 5 adults.  Lo and behold the new school are saying they are withdrawing his offer and that basically leaves him going to the prison school for kids with behavioural problems that I have always dreaded them suggesting.

We have meetings with the LA and both schools but I suddenly feel like it was the plan all along but they knew we would never agree to the prison school.

Parent of an 8 year old ASD boy here with some experience with SEN issues and procedures so I get your concerns. 

Firstly, you should complain in writing to the relevant authorities over this move. An unscheduled meeting like that is totally out of order. 

Secondly, it is frustrating to be bounced around because educational systems. We had the difficulty of discovering that the recently departed on maternity leave SENCO hadn't actually done her job over the last year and had failed to action certain procedures. 

Thirdly, you say the special school doesn't tolerate any ASB. If so, then you should query in writing again why the offer was withdrawn and the school's policy regarding ASB (personally I wouldn't class it as ASB. It's a symptom of autism, the physical fleeing response, not him trying to start shit with other people). 

Why do you dread the prison school? You might find that it turns out to be the right environment for him. Autism has no certain easy pathway. Something you might consider wrong for him may be successful. 

The issue with the prison school is I know the school reasonably well from my job, it is great at what it does but the majority of kids there are those with serious behavioural problems and criminal pasts.  My son is very bright but emotionally is a 3 year old, he watches baby programmes, wets the bed, doesn't swear and has baby like tantrums.

He just is too vulnerable to be in a school with 16 year olds who have been removed from mainstream because of expulsions for violence, stealing cars etc.

He would just get eaten alive.