Band Insurance

hywelg

Of the 3rd Party Liability kind. Who does and who doesn't?

And what sort of money do you have to pay?

BenSirAmos

Members of the musician's union are insured for legal liability of £10m, to cover injury to members of the public or damage to property for no extra payment over their fees (and musical instrument insurance is included too). Professional indemnity insurance is an extra £55 (if you are a teacher or similar)

hywelg

That'd be about £1000 for all five of us...yikes!

BenSirAmos

but you could do £50m worth of damage

Handsome_Chris

OMG I forgot about that.  I can do £10m worth of damage with my guitar equipment and the MU have my back. KICK ASS!

BenSirAmos

And I can nick two grands worth of your gear and you're covered. What's your address?

Handsome_Chris

Which would cover one US Standard Strat and the Graphtech system fitted to it.

Actually, £2k doesn't go that far these days.

hywelg

BenSirAmos said:

but you could do £50m worth of damage

Not argueing with that, I've been quoted less than £200 for third party liability for the whole band.

hywelg

BenSirAmos said:

And I can nick two grands worth of your gear and you're covered. What's your address?

That'd just about cover my pedal board

chrisj1602

I could be wrong but if you use Allianz instrument insurance, I think you get covered.

Cirrus

I've used music guard for the past 5 years. It's £200 / year for me to insure £7k of gear with our rehearsal complex as the primary address, cover at gigs and in cars, and £1m public liability.

Used to be cheaper but I think every insurance product has become more expensive over the last few years.

hywelg

Cirrus said:

 and £1m public liability.

IS that just for you or the band? Do the other band members insure themselves?

Ever had an issue that £1m wasn't enough? I think local authorities insist on £5m dont they?

not_the_dj

@fretmeister wrote a great post back on MR about this, basically saying £1m won't be enough if a speaker stack falls on a bloke in his 20s who then can't work for the rest of his life.

He used a lot more words than that and it sounded really impressive.

(I have £1m public liability cover with my gear insurance from Musicguard)

BenSirAmos

hywelg said:

BenSirAmos said:

but you could do £50m worth of damage

Not argueing with that, I've been quoted less than £200 for third party liability for the whole band.

So that is one member's subs.

How much is your collective instrument insurance? (Okay so MU just go up to £2k per member - but you can supplement that pretty cheaply)

And if you are professional enough to worry about public liability, should you be considering MU membership anyway?

http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/join-the-mu/benefits/

FWIW, buying standalone insurance can work out costly. For my day job, I really only need professional indemnity insurance but the public liability add-on was so cheap, I included that too.

Danny1969

You can pay about £148 a year for PLI if you think you need it or you can buy it on a per day \ eve basis for about £38. If you gig hotels \ council \ corporate venues then you might as well get the year. Your gear needs to be PAT tested every year but that doesn't cost a lot. In fact if you consider yourself competent you can do it yourself. 

For theft cover from band van companies like Musicians Insurance Services cover you for about 2% the gross value per annual on top of the normal van premium           

hywelg

BenSirAmos said:

So that is one member's subs.

But that one members subs wont cover the whole band or will it?

BenSirAmos said:

How much is your collective instrument insurance? (Okay so MU just go up to £2k per member - but you can supplement that pretty cheaply)

Pretty much non-existent. Most people, myself included can get musical gear included under all risks on home contents insurance, up to the point at which you do it professionally, we dont and never will its just a hobby. My insurance Co do not define you as professional just because you get paid £50 (ea) or so for a pub gig.

BenSirAmos said:

And if you are professional enough to worry about public liability, should you be considering MU membership anyway?

No body can afford to be complacent about 3rd Party liability professional or not. I have no interest in joining the MU. I am not a musician. I play for fun, that doesn't make me a musician, just like someone rewiring a plug doesn't make them an electrician.

BenSirAmos said:

FWIW, buying standalone insurance can work out costly. For my day job, I really only need professional indemnity insurance but the public liability add-on was so cheap, I included that too.

Not as costly as every band member joining the MU. As i said above,  MU 5 persons = £1000 , standalone £200.

fretmeister

not_the_dj said:

@fretmeister wrote a great post back on MR about this, basically saying £1m won't be enough if a speaker stack falls on a bloke in his 20s who then can't work for the rest of his life.

He used a lot more words than that and it sounded really impressive.

(I have £1m public liability cover with my gear insurance from Musicguard)

I remember that!

I'm not writing it all out again but...

20 year old earning £20K per year not able to work again when your PA cab lands on his head and does proper damage- expecting to retire at 65 - that's £900,000 loss of earnings straight away without even thinking about pay rises and inflation.

Then 3 nurses salaries (NHS won't pay for that if there is a negligent party who can pay for it) - basically each nurse providing an 8 hour shift. 3x8 - 24 hour care. Private nurse salary at about £25K x 3 to date of death - lets stick with 65 for a simple example = £4,875,000

Move to a wheelchair suitable house or stick a lift in the existing one - another £100,000

Replacement powered wheelchair - new one every 5 to 6 years at £5000 each - that's another £45,000 to retirement age

Then there is the injury itself - something catastrophic like that, £500,000 or more (the injury element is usually one of the cheaper bits - especially when compared to loss of earnings / care etc).

That's almost £6.5 million and we haven't really got into it.

Obviously 99% of accidents won't cause that level of injury and that is why PLI insurance is actually so cheap. But you still only pay £150 premium even if the insurer ends up paying out £5 million. That's what it is for.

If you don't have PLI and you are going out to perform with your equipment etc - then you are an idiot.

Cirrus

hywelg;191563" said:

IS that just for you or the band? Do the other band members insure themselves?



Ever had an issue that £1m wasn't enough? I think local authorities insist on £5m dont they?

That's just for me, the other guys either do or don't, depending on whether they're an idiot frontman or not.

I don't know, I've only ever played one gig where it was explicitly stated we had to have it.

not_the_dj

fretmeister said:

I remember that!

I'm not writing it all out again but...

....snip....

 

I though you said you won't be writting it out again? Look there it is at the top, just before you wrote it out again.

PolarityMan

fretmeister said:

not_the_dj said:

@fretmeister wrote a great post back on MR about this, basically saying £1m won't be enough if a speaker stack falls on a bloke in his 20s who then can't work for the rest of his life.

He used a lot more words than that and it sounded really impressive.

(I have £1m public liability cover with my gear insurance from Musicguard)

I remember that!

I'm not writing it all out again but...

20 year old earning £20K per year not able to work again when your PA cab lands on his head and does proper damage- expecting to retire at 65 - that's £900,000 loss of earnings straight away without even thinking about pay rises and inflation.

Then 3 nurses salaries (NHS won't pay for that if there is a negligent party who can pay for it) - basically each nurse providing an 8 hour shift. 3x8 - 24 hour care. Private nurse salary at about £25K x 3 to date of death - lets stick with 65 for a simple example = £4,875,000

Move to a wheelchair suitable house or stick a lift in the existing one - another £100,000

Replacement powered wheelchair - new one every 5 to 6 years at £5000 each - that's another £45,000 to retirement age

Then there is the injury itself - something catastrophic like that, £500,000 or more (the injury element is usually one of the cheaper bits - especially when compared to loss of earnings / care etc).

That's almost £6.5 million and we haven't really got into it.

Obviously 99% of accidents won't cause that level of injury and that is why PLI insurance is actually so cheap. But you still only pay £150 premium even if the insurer ends up paying out £5 million. That's what it is for.

If you don't have PLI and you are going out to perform with your equipment etc - then you are an idiot.

So what you're saying is that if you knock you're PA onto a guy in their 20s you need the PA to be big enough to be certain that it'll take them out?

fretmeister

Depends!

If they don't have any dependants then killing him is cheaper.

If he has kids, then you will still be paying his future loss of earnings up until the point the deceased would have stopped supporting his own kids financially. So 18 years old is normal, but if the kid was going to university then to about the age of 22.