20w / smaller amps - `does it work live with a band?` - videos thread!

newi123

So one of the questions that seems to be asked alot is `is it loud enough to gig?`

Here is a brief bit of our gig from Sat night - medium sized pub fairly full of people. Amp miked but 95% of the sound coming from the backline. PA just used of a bit of spread. As a band we were quite loud, although not the most heavy handed drummer I`ve played with, far from being the quietest. Bass player running a 4x10 and a 1x15.

Signal chain was guitar, TU2, Xotic AC+, DD3 into Jet City 20HV (20w from 2xel84s). Cab is open backed Zilla with a v30 and a heritage. Amp set fairly cleanly - preamp on 5 and volume around 2. Drive mainly coming from the AC with the boost on the AC kicked in for the lead bits.

Hope this is helpful to someone and please feel free to share you own vids in the thread below in the `is it loud enough` proof section!

Cheers

photek

Good thread idea chap. My Jubilee Mini Head is plenty loud enough through a 2x12 cab without the need to mic up.

digitalscream

Not got any videos, but my new H&K Tubemeister 18 is just man enough for rehearsals as a power amp for my Helix. It's on the verge of running out of headroom at solo volume.

I don't need it that loud for gigs, though, since it's mainly for on-stage monitoring (there's either a mic in front or the Helix is going DI).

That said, my Jet City JCA22H was a lot louder and had quite a bit more headroom by comparison.

TTBZ

I'm currently using a Marshall Mini Jubilee combo which is more than loud enough for band practices. Master is normally on about 7 so I have a bit more on tap, reckon I could gig with it easily. Through a 2x12 it's even better. Have also played one of the new DSL20 heads with a drummer and it has been loud enough with more if needed. I don't ever play clean though and don't have another guitarist to compete with so ymmv. 

p90fool

I run a pair of Jet City 20w heads because I play a lot of lighter pop and pseudo acoustic stuff, but for the rock numbers I would definitely only need one of them. 
Sorry, don't have any videos I'm not ashamed of, you'll just have to take my word for it!

not_the_dj

Another pub rocker here with a Jet City 20HW.....for smaller places I use a Zilla 2x12 on it's side like in the OPs vid. Larger places I use two 2x12 stacked.

Danny1969

I've done hundreds, literally hundreds of gig's with a Blackstar HT5 into a 1 x 12" cab. Never had a problem really. In this vid I'm using it ol skool, no IEM's or wedge, just relying on hearing it behind me. Excuse the lo fi sound

robinbowes

newi123 said:

So one of the questions that seems to be asked alot is `is it loud enough to gig?`

And one of the most common answers is "it depends".

If you want a true clean sound (think, Nile Rodgers) then you'll need something with more power than if you're happy with some breakup in your tone.

Also, you'll need less power if you have a "middy" tone.

R.

digitalscream

robinbowes said:

newi123 said:

So one of the questions that seems to be asked alot is `is it loud enough to gig?`

And one of the most common answers is "it depends".

If you want a true clean sound (think, Nile Rodgers) then you'll need something with more power than if you're happy with some breakup in your tone.

Also, you'll need less power if you have a "middy" tone.

R.

It's the funny thing - accepted wisdom is that if you want metal-ish tones, you need 100W+. My tone is pretty low-end-heavy and fairly high-gain (but with a clear low-end, if you see what I mean), and I've never had it so good as I did with my JCA22H.

The Tubemeister isn't ideal - it does fuzz a little at the bottom - but it's still easily good enough.

TTBZ

digitalscream said:

It's the funny thing - accepted wisdom is that if you want metal-ish tones, you need 100W+. My tone is pretty low-end-heavy and fairly high-gain (but with a clear low-end, if you see what I mean), and I've never had it so good as I did with my JCA22H.

Yeah my tone at rehearsals is the best it's ever been with my jubilee! We play loud stoner rock/metal and I like a big sound. Through a decent cab the difference between the mini and the full size one isn't so much in the low end - imo the bigger one feels a bit stiffer and a little tighter but the mini is much less fizzy/harsh due to the master being able to get up to a nice place. And a little looseness is fine for my style, but you only get that with the master fully cranked anyway.

impmann

robinbowes said:

If you want a true clean sound (think, Nile Rodgers) then you'll need something with more power than if you're happy with some breakup in your tone.

If you hear Nile live, his sound isn't a 'clean' as you may think... and he's only using 60w Fenders for Arenas and Open Air stuff.

But, I'd agree that for funky cleans (or pop jangle etc) you can run out of steam with a low power head - depending on how much of a meathead you have on the drums. I'd also suggest that it depends on your pickups too - a pair of humbuckers isn't going to remain clean through a low powered head for long! However, a low output Strat will work well through say an AC30 for relatively clean stuff at volumes that make your eyeballs curl.

newi123

robinbowes said:

newi123 said:

So one of the questions that seems to be asked alot is `is it loud enough to gig?`

And one of the most common answers is "it depends".

Agreed - hence the idea to post vids to see how it actually works in a gig situation. 

Danny1969

Thinking about it in the vid I posted above both amps are HT5 heads  although the other guy is using his into a smaller Harley Benton 1 x 12" cab

There's just so many ways of doing things these days, some use small amps mic'ed and IEM's ... some use no power section at all just modeller into PA and IEM's  .... some are still ol skool big amps and no mic'ing .... because quite rightly a big amp has a nice under-stressed feel at low volumes

There is no answer really, you do what works for you and very often what's the least hassle.
If I may depart any wisdom though it would always be don't fight volume with volume .... got a loud drummer ? then reduce the volume of drums you hear via plugs or IEM's ... don't fight his volume by having louder backline ... tempting as that is sometimes. 
Almost all of the bands I work with have sound engineers so all I'm ever worried about is what I hear, the FOH is their problem. In this situation almost any tiny amp is workable

ecc83

Those lil' triodes are holding their own there Danny aren't they? And considering all the evil crap that has been written about the Five in the last decade they sound pretty good to me!

Dave.

digitalscream

impmann said:

robinbowes said:

If you want a true clean sound (think, Nile Rodgers) then you'll need something with more power than if you're happy with some breakup in your tone.

If you hear Nile live, his sound isn't a 'clean' as you may think... and he's only using 60w Fenders for Arenas and Open Air stuff.

Well, the interesting part here is that the bigger the venue, the smaller the amp you need.

In a backline-only pub, it needs to provide all the sound the audience hear.

In a small club, it needs to provide the sound you hear (the audience hear the PA).

From large clubs up to stadiums, it only has to be loud enough for the mic to be picking up mostly it and not have any significant bleed, because the audience are hearing the PA and you're using the stage monitors.

TheBigDipper

ecc83 said:

Those lil' triodes are holding their own there Danny aren't they? And considering all the evil crap that has been written about the Five in the last decade they sound pretty good to me!

Dave.

Slightly off topic - I've always liked the HT5 for its sounds - I borrowed one for a few days with the (if I remember correctly) two 8in speaker mini stack. I'm a clean/breakup player mostly and it worked well for me. 

However, I hated the control knobs. It was almost impossible to see what my settings were. I don't think I'd be able to take something with those to a gig and feel comfortable.

ecc83

TheBigDipper said:

ecc83 said:

Those lil' triodes are holding their own there Danny aren't they? And considering all the evil crap that has been written about the Five in the last decade they sound pretty good to me!

Dave.

Slightly off topic - I've always liked the HT5 for its sounds - I borrowed one for a few days with the (if I remember correctly) two 8in speaker mini stack. I'm a clean/breakup player mostly and it worked well for me. 

However, I hated the control knobs. It was almost impossible to see what my settings were. I don't think I'd be able to take something with those to a gig and feel comfortable.

Agree about the knobs! If I had one I would drill out the dull black paint and replace with Brilliant White!

I thought the mini-stack was two tens?

Dave.

Danny1969

My HT5 has felt tip pointers because I couldn't see what they were pointing at either

@ecc83 did you see my comment the other day about repairing an HT club 40 and asking why the clean volume is a dual gang pot and why the PCB is drilled and marked for dual gang tone controls .... was this going to be a stereo amp at one point ?

mudslide73

My band must be really loud - I couldn't use my 18w clone unmiked even with 100db speakers - the solos just wouldn't cut through.

I'm using a JCA50H now so it doesn't matter. Very heartening to see some Jet City love on here though.

digitalscream

mudslide73 said:

My band must be really loud - I couldn't use my 18w clone unmiked even with 100db speakers - the solos just wouldn't cut through.

I'm using a JCA50H now so it doesn't matter. Very heartening to see some Jet City love on here though.

Aye, love me some Jet City loudness If it wasn't for the weight - and the stupid effects loop position - I'd be using my JCA50H for Helix power amp duties.

guitarfishbay

digitalscream said:

robinbowes said:

newi123 said:

So one of the questions that seems to be asked alot is `is it loud enough to gig?`

And one of the most common answers is "it depends".

If you want a true clean sound (think, Nile Rodgers) then you'll need something with more power than if you're happy with some breakup in your tone.

Also, you'll need less power if you have a "middy" tone.

R.

It's the funny thing - accepted wisdom is that if you want metal-ish tones, you need 100W+. My tone is pretty low-end-heavy and fairly high-gain (but with a clear low-end, if you see what I mean), and I've never had it so good as I did with my JCA22H.

The Tubemeister isn't ideal - it does fuzz a little at the bottom - but it's still easily good enough.

Well I'm using 90 watts and getting on ok.  I could be using 180 watts though that'd be more hassle, I'd have to balance the volumes individually and well, 90 is enough.