MIM spaced tremolo options (2 1/16")

chrishill901

I just picked up an ESP GL-256 and want to replace the bridge but it is MIM spaced. I wanted a Gotoh Vintage for about £80 but they don't do that spacing and I can't find anything that isn't either £150 or cheap...

I know Wudtone do one, as do Hipshot, but they are very expensive. Guitar Fetish do one but is that really an upgrade, as do AxesRus for about £45... Any options I can't find? I've tried google but its just the same options coming up!

CasperCaster

I don't know your model of ESP, but what specifically don't you like about the trem?

Just asking to ascertain if upgrading the trem (e.g. a better block) might be an option instead of wholesale replacement? Maybe upgrade it in stages if cash is an issue - for example change the block and arm first, then maybe a Wudtone bridge plate, then maybe saddles - just a thought?

Alternatively the Wilkinson trems have a good reputation despite their economical price, and Vanson do a machined steel block as an upgrade over the zinc or cast steel blocks which the Wilkinson trems come with as standard.

At less money than the Callaham bridge, but of similar quality is the ABM 5050. I forget which variant is Mexican spaced (2" 1/16 or 52.5mm), but I'm certain one is. 

chrishill901

Not a bad idea @CasperCaster - It's not necessarily a bad trem per se, I just want quality materials at every point of contact with the strings. I watched an interview with Paul Reed Smith and he stressed it quite passionately that if you use any cheap parts that come into contact with the strings that it will affect your tone. As I'm upgrading the nut and putting locking tuners on I just thought that a new tremolo would be a good idea too, but perhaps new saddles first and a block and then worry about the rest later?

I cant find anything by Wilkinson with that spacing. I'm normally a fan of their gear so its the first place I looked! I'll check out the ABM, thanks!

ICBM

What's wrong with the Axesrus one? It has a solid steel block and pressed saddles. As they say on their website this spec is very rare with the Mex pivot screw spacing.

CasperCaster

Regarding the Wilkinson stuff, I'm not 100% certain, but I thought the models with elongated mounting holes were designed for any mounting spacing (not sure of string spacing on these, 54mm?), but maybe others can confirm as I'm definitely not up to date on the Wilkinson stuff. 

A recent thread on steel (and brass) trem blocks here: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1797674/#Comment_1797674
I have Kevin Hurley blocks (some steel, some brass) on the Wudtone trems on four of my Strats and they are excellent. Although he isn't currently selling on eBay his contact details are in the thread. I reckon a high quality block makes the most difference if upgrading a trem in stages (assuming typical zinc block is stock before upgrades). I'm not saying the quality of the other components doesn't matter, just that I think the single biggest difference is the block. Of course, if the sadlles are cheap or uncomfortable under your hand, or the trem plain won't stay in tune then there are other priorities than the block!

ICBM

CasperCaster said:

Regarding the Wilkinson stuff, I'm not 100% certain, but I thought the models with elongated mounting holes were designed for any mounting spacing (not sure of string spacing on these, 54mm?), but maybe others can confirm as I'm definitely not up to date on the Wilkinson stuff.

No, because if you use one on a guitar with narrower string spacing, the low E will be in the correct position and the other strings will be progressively further out - the top E almost off the side of the fingerboard.

The purpose of the oval holes is to prevent binding if the screw position isn't quite perfect, rather than to allow them to be used on a guitar with the wrong post spacing.

CasperCaster

@ICBM good of you to clarify the purpose of the elongated holes on the Wilkinson bridges. It's been a good few years since I have had a guitar equipped with one, but enjoyed it when I had it.

chrishill901

ICBM said:

What's wrong with the Axesrus one? It has a solid steel block and pressed saddles. As they say on their website this spec is very rare with the Mex pivot screw spacing.

I just assumed a £45 trem wouldn’t be much of an upgrade. Are they any good?

ICBM

chrishill901 said:

I just assumed a £45 trem wouldn’t be much of an upgrade. Are they any good?

I don't know - I've been meaning to get one for my Japanese Aria, and never got around to it. But how bad can a solid steel block, a steel baseplate and steel saddles be? It looks fine in the pic.

Given that they're mass-produced it's the prices for the other ones that seem less sensible to me...

Bear in mind that you can buy a whole Chinese Strat copy for only double that, at full retail price. (OK not including a steel block.)

Nomad

I got a Kevin Hurley block for my MIM strat 2-3 weeks ago. I contacted him via eBay, and he set up a listing for me once the spec was agreed. Straight fit, no issues at all. It came with an arm (with tip), and the screws to fix it to the bridge, and was £32 including delivery.

One thing to take note of is that he offers a version of his block that has a plastic sleeve in the hole where the arm goes - it's threaded deeper down and the sleeve helps to keep the arm located when transitioning between pitch down and pitch up. There's a tiny bit of free play (similar to the Wilkinson on my Red Special, ie, barely noticeable), and it's light years better than the original Fender arm and block.

It may be cork sniffery, but the Axesrus block is cast steel rather than machined from bar stock. The crystalline structure inside the material will be different, but the sonic effect might be in the 1% range (ie, undetectable). Mass is almost the same - Axesrus say 240g for their block, and my Hurley weighed 256g (exactly double the zinc-coloured cheese effort that it replaced).

For the sake of having the good arm fit, and assuming the current bridge/saddles on the guitar are crap, I would buy the cheaper Axesrus bridge with the zinc block, for 20 quid, and get a machined Kevin Hurley block and arm. Both Axesrus bridges have the pressed saddles, and I'd be very tempted to think that they're exactly the same bits of hardware - just the block is different.

If the Axesrus block still has arm waggle at the up/down transition, then, compared to the one with the cast steel block, their cheaper one plus the Hurley block adds up to 7 quid extra for the better arm fit.

chrishill901

That seems like excellent advice @Nomad ! I could just get the axesrus steel saddles for £8 and then the Kevin Hurley block? Would the base plate on my esp be steel? Assuming it’s just as cheap as they can get?

im assuming springs and claw make a negligible difference if at all?

chrishill901

Anyone have a contact for Kevin Hurley? I can’t find anything on eBay.

Nomad

Look for kevinh3324 on eBay.

I don't know what the bridge plate is made of on your ESP, but I'd have thought steel is likely. It's a fair bet that the saddles will fit, but I'd want them to come with their own intonation screws in case the ones fitted to the guitar are a different thread.

You also need to be sure that the three countersunk screws that fix the plate to the block are at the right spacing. For a MIM strat, it's 1+5/8" or 41.28mm. If the current plate is different, you'd need to measure it very accurately and tell KevinH. He can make a block to suit, but the dimensions need to be pretty precise for the countersunk screws to go in properly.

ICBM

chrishill901 said:

im assuming springs and claw make a negligible difference if at all?

Springs can make a noticeable difference both to the feel of the trem and the tone. The claw doesn't.