Boss Katana NOT cutting through,......

AdamHarkusBlog

So far my Katana 50 has been great, power to spare at our old rehearsal studio..... but we've switched to a dedicated room, and our drummer brought his own drumkit....

The Katana is now REALLY struggling with the superior brighter and louder drumkit, getting it's frequencies wiped out left right and center.

If I turned up, yeah I could get above him, but that messes up the overall mix and makes everything just too loud and uncontrollable.

What's missing is that thick punch in the midrange from it's core, even with the Mid Control maxed. In other words it's not about volume, it's about frequencies and that solid push you get from valves (I fear).

Really disappointing, but lets see how it goes with further experimentation with outboard gear (Boss ME80).

darthed1981

Paging @p90fool who wrote a loooong thread about using a Katana live.

I think the bottom line consensus from those more knowledgable than me is that it is a kick ass home amp that also doubles for a bit of jamming, rehearsals and the odd gig, but it has weaknesses in that area.

Have you tried the Katana 100?  Maybe that has the headroom to push you over the edge?

They also have a Global EQ that may allow you to push the mids a bit more accessible through the PC software?

bloodandtears

are you using a 1x12  combo??

AdamHarkusBlog

darthed1981 said:

Paging @p90fool who wrote a loooong thread about using a Katana live.

I think the bottom line consensus from those more knowledgable than me is that it is a kick ass home amp that also doubles for a bit of jamming, rehearsals and the odd gig, but it has weaknesses in that area.

Have you tried the Katana 100?  Maybe that has the headroom to push you over the edge?

They also have a Global EQ that may allow you to push the mids a bit more accessible through the PC software?

Never touched tone-studio yet. I Really don't think its about headroom at all, the 50 does have the power to spare, it's how it sits in the mix... It just doesn't posses that 'Bark' you need to punch through a live mix.  

Is the Global EQ in addition to the existing amp eq? 

What are the factory settings ?

AdamHarkusBlog

bloodandtears said:

are you using a 1x12  combo??

Yeah 1x12 Katana 50.

Marktigere1

Interesting about the 50.

My Son has the 100 1x12 and uses it in an originals band with a second guitar, Keyboard and acoustic drum kit.

Live he mic's and I've been in the audience hearing him fine.

He can hear himself on stage as well with a wedge from the desk.

Could it be a difference between the 50 and 100 watts speaker? 

AdamHarkusBlog

The 100 and the 50 both have a 12" Speaker, although I take it the 100 has a slightly bigger magnet.

I'm not convinced that upgrading the 100 would necessarily give me the added punch.

Having said that, what upgrading to a Celestion V30 ?  A speaker famed for it's mid hump?

Marktigere1

I don't know for sure but I have heard they are a different speaker.

kennedydream1980

How much use has your 50 combo had? Is the speaker broken in yet?. The only reason I say this is I bought 2 50 combos second hand recently. One have them had been used much more extensively at higher volumes than the other. They sounded very different when I first got them. The one that had had the most use sounded much punchier and sweeter overall. The other one had something missing in the mid range like you describe, sounded a bit harsher in the upper frequencies and seemed to be a smidgeon quieter.

After a good few gigs running the combos in stereo at higher volume they are definitely sounding a lot closer. So I suspect what you might be experiencing is the speaker not being broken in yet.

AdamHarkusBlog

Hmmm... Interesting. I'll definitely stick with it for now.
I say not more than 5 2hour band practices at full volume, so 10 hours.

Is that enough time to break it in?

darthed1981

adamlovesgin said:

Is the Global EQ in addition to the existing amp eq? 

What are the factory settings ?

Yes I believe so, some posters consider tweaking it essential to getting a decent sound.

I'm not sure, but fairly neutral I suspect.  To be honest once I start fiddling with all the FX Tone studio gives you access to I've never gotten that far

Edit: BTW - I agree with your stance on gin

kennedydream1980

adamlovesgin said:

Hmmm... Interesting. I'll definitely stick with it for now.
I say not more than 5 2hour band practices at full volume, so 10 hours.

Is that enough time to break it in?

I would say closer to 20 hours would do it

AdamHarkusBlog

kennedydream1980 said:

adamlovesgin said:

Hmmm... Interesting. I'll definitely stick with it for now.
I say not more than 5 2hour band practices at full volume, so 10 hours.

Is that enough time to break it in?

I would say closer to 20 hours would do it

Watch this space then

Thanks for the advice. It is a brand new amp

p90fool

adamlovesgin said:

So far my Katana 50 has been great, power to spare at our old rehearsal studio..... but we've switched to a dedicated room, and our drummer brought his own drumkit....

The Katana is now REALLY struggling with the superior brighter and louder drumkit, getting it's frequencies wiped out left right and center.

If I turned up, yeah I could get above him, but that messes up the overall mix and makes everything just too loud and uncontrollable.

What's missing is that thick punch in the midrange from it's core, even with the Mid Control maxed. In other words it's not about volume, it's about frequencies and that solid push you get from valves (I fear).

This is pretty much my exact experience. It's a frequency and dynamics issue, not a power issue. I had enough power to be too loud if I wanted, but trying to sit in the right place in the mix seems impossible, as random frequencies seem to get masked by other instruments. 

I'd spend time dialling it in perfectly, then the very next song in the set I'd be either inaudible or deafening again. 

One of the joys of guitar playing to me is to play a quiet-ish song with a good singer with just a tad too much volume or gain on my amp, picking extremely delicately and riding the guitar volume to stay in exactly the right place in the mix.

That feeling of restrained power, where you can make any part of any note sing out whenever you like is what keeps me making music.

The Katana just can't do it, and a million blind YouTube tests will never show up the problem. 

I fought it for months over many gigs, and it truly was highlighted when I went back to a single channel valve head live - I just turned the knobs a bit so I had slightly more than I needed of everything and did the whole set from the guitar without going back to the amp once. 

I use my guitar basically as a remote control for my amp, with the Katana it was like there was a communication problem, like dying batteries in your TV remote. 

AdamHarkusBlog

darthed1981 said:

adamlovesgin said:

Is the Global EQ in addition to the existing amp eq? 

What are the factory settings ?

Yes I believe so, some posters consider tweaking it essential to getting a decent sound.

I'm not sure, but fairly neutral I suspect.  To be honest once I start fiddling with all the FX Tone studio gives you access to I've never gotten that far

Edit: BTW - I agree with your stance on gin

That's one of the drawbacks of the Katana for me. The versatility is there, you just cant implement it in the real world.

In my cause I would need to bring a laptop to rehearsals, that's the only way I could test he Global EQ settings.

Rocker

I seem to remember that someone posted setting the master at max and using the channel and guitar controls to adjust volume levels. Might have been on a Blackstar but same might apply here....

Grunfeld

adamlovesgin said:

...In other words it's not about volume, it's about frequencies and that solid push you get from valves (I fear).

If it's any reassurance it's not inherent in solid state amps.  I've been running a SS Orange head with a 2*12 for years and I've never noticed a lack of oomph.  In fact the only setting it's not great on is if the Master Volume is set below about 1.5 -- then it sounds a bit weedy -- but over that (which has been every pub gig ever) there's no problem with the guitar getting lost.  So maybe a Katana thing rather than a SS thing?

AdamHarkusBlog

p90fool said:

adamlovesgin said:

So far my Katana 50 has been great, power to spare at our old rehearsal studio..... but we've switched to a dedicated room, and our drummer brought his own drumkit....

The Katana is now REALLY struggling with the superior brighter and louder drumkit, getting it's frequencies wiped out left right and center.

If I turned up, yeah I could get above him, but that messes up the overall mix and makes everything just too loud and uncontrollable.

What's missing is that thick punch in the midrange from it's core, even with the Mid Control maxed. In other words it's not about volume, it's about frequencies and that solid push you get from valves (I fear).

This is pretty much my exact experience. It's a frequency and dynamics issue, not a power issue. I had enough power to be too loud if I wanted, but trying to sit in the right place in the mix seems impossible, as random frequencies seem to get masked by other instruments. 

I'd spend time dialling it in perfectly, then the very next song in the set I'd be either inaudible or deafening again. 

One of the joys of guitar playing to me is to play a quiet-ish song with a good singer with just a tad too much volume or gain on my amp, picking extremely delicately and riding the guitar volume to stay in exactly the right place in the mix.

That feeling of restrained power, where you can make any part of any note sing out whenever you like is what keeps me making music.

The Katana just can't do it, and a million blind YouTube tests will never show up the problem. 

I fought it for months over many gigs, and it truly was highlighted when I went back to a single channel valve head live - I just turned the knobs a bit so I had slightly more than I needed of everything and did the whole set from the guitar without going back to the amp once. 

I use my guitar basically as a remote control for my amp, with the Katana it was like there was a communication problem, like dying batteries in your TV remote. 

I really hope you've got it wrong, but I've a sinking feeling you could be right!

I use the Katana purely as a clean platform, with gain controlled by my ME-80 via the OD/OS patch.

This is coming from a guy that used to use a Cornford. I just couldn't be bothered with FX loops, 4 cables, diasy chains, power leads etc anymore.

Initially, like I say the katana seems to work absolutely fine, but not last night..

Maybe it's because I'm running the master + volume at max and controlling the power with the Gain. (Gain on about 1/3).

It sure sounded better with the gain (clean channel over half) so I may go back to that setup.

Also, running with the gain quite low mean there's less punch from the TS model of the ME-80.

Maybe I just need to open up the clean channel a little more.

Ah,,,, it's all good fun, and I only paid £160 for it

AdamHarkusBlog

Rocker said:

I seem to remember that someone posted setting the master at max and using the channel and guitar controls to adjust volume levels. Might have been on a Blackstar but same might apply here....

Yeah maybe I do need to control volume with the volume control rather than have the master and volume maxed and controlling it with the gain control.

Maybe Maxing the volume and gain is pushing it too far!

kennedydream1980

adamlovesgin said:

Rocker said:

I seem to remember that someone posted setting the master at max and using the channel and guitar controls to adjust volume levels. Might have been on a Blackstar but same might apply here....

Yeah maybe I do need to control volume with the volume control rather than have the master and volume maxed and controlling it with the gain control.

Maybe Maxing the volume and gain is pushing it too far!

For live gigs I've been running my 2 combos with Master Vol on full, Gain at 9 oclock and volume at 1 oclock. That's on the Clean channel with pedals, all EQ at 12 oclock. That's on the 50watt power setting.

AdamHarkusBlog

Grunfeld said:

adamlovesgin said:

...In other words it's not about volume, it's about frequencies and that solid push you get from valves (I fear).

If it's any reassurance it's not inherent in solid state amps.  I've been running a SS Orange head with a 2*12 for years and I've never noticed a lack of oomph.  In fact the only setting it's not great on is if the Master Volume is set below about 1.5 -- then it sounds a bit weedy -- but over that (which has been every pub gig ever) there's no problem with the guitar getting lost.  So maybe a Katana thing rather than a SS thing?

I'm going to investigate backing off the volume control and upping the gain to half, while keeping the master at Max.

It sounds like what it is, maxed, and struggling.

I think I just need to increase the clean channel gain to give me more oompf.