Subwoofer isolation pads - careful now...

Hallo all - put this in Studio & Recording rather than off-topic as I thought people here might have a bit more experience.

I am considering adding subs to my music systems. One is a Canton soundbase, the other is in the workshop and comprises four bookshelf-type speakers. I am after some low-frequency extension at sensible volume levels, not floor-shakery, but I am concerned about annoying the neighbours (in the workshop) and Lady BMcH (at home).

Auralex and others do isolation pads for subwoofers; in theory I can see that they might reduce transmission through the fabric of the building. I can probably DIY something with springs and foam and that sort of lark for the workshop, 'cos it won't need to be pretty in there.

The other option for the workshop is just to get some speakers with bigger woofers - the Boston Acoustics CR5s (or 6s, can't remember) were free about 20 years ago. But they do a nice job with music, until the bass gets really deep.

Thoughts welcomed.
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Comments

  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited April 2018
    It's really not going to make a huge difference when it comes to wall through wall transmission, it'll just stop it coupling with the floor which will make it less boomy in the room and if there's hollow floor to transmit through that way.  I'm prepared to be proven wrong if someone has tested it extensively, I haven't tried any of the sub isolation pads specifically.

    I had an 8 inch Studio sub for a while and it was really obvious when it was on or not in the adjacent room, even 2 rooms away, at what I would consider reasonable volume in the room (not whisper quiet but not should I turn it down kind of volume either). 

    I tried it sat on top of a GIK Soffit (a fairly decent sized bass trap 120x40x40cm) as an experiment though and it really didn't stop any noticeable transmission between the rooms.

    I'm guessing your goal isn't a flat-ish system but I did find it particularly difficult to find a good position for it, to integrate with the main speakers.  It's not as simple as just sticking it on the floor somewhere but IIRC you work in something to do with sound anyway so I'm sure you're completely aware of that.

    My own preference for a typical smaller room is just beefier monitors, ideally a 6" woofer with decent power handling.  I had a set of HS8s a few years ago that certainly had enough low end for my liking.

    If you have the budget I've generally found Genelecs sound good for low end relative to their size.  If you want a HiFi speaker I know very little about them to be honest.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27590
    Ta - all good points. I'm after music reproduction; I'm not sure I'd say hifi. The soundbase is good enough, it's more the workshop, so I suspect just going for bigger woofers will solve the problem the simplest way. Going from 5" to 8" may well do the trick nicely.

    I did an entire project at uni on subwoofer placement, built a Matlab implementation of the Boundary Element Method to do it, so I'm pretty comfortable with that (or the move-it-around-until-it-sounds-best approach).

    Come to think of it we might have a sub knocking around at work... I could do some entirely valid office-hours experimentation for free!

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  • oafoaf Frets: 300
    Sounds like bigger speakers will probably be the best solution for you. If you're keen on getting a sub you could look at the smaller offerings from BK - they sell direct so are decent VfM I think.
    https://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    If your sub woofer is setup ‘properly’ for music, you won’t hear it! But you will notice the effect of it. If you can hear it, turn it down until you can’t and then you get to experience the magic of sub woofers. 
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27590
    I set up a lot of subs for work - that bit is easy.

    But before I dump £275 on a Canton one I want to be sure it won't annoy anyone I care about.
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  • oafoaf Frets: 300
    I dont know your circumstances but it'll most likely carry quite a bit at any kind of volume. I doubt padding/suspending it will make much difference, think of how long e.g. a 50Hz wave is. We have a detached house and I've been surprised how loud music from inside the house can sound outside of it, particularly the bass, so if you're concerned about neighbours...

    Maybe borrow one for a bit (via work?) or get one on approval that you can return if it doesn't work out.

    OTOH most cheap subwoofers don't go very low and if you're not listening very loud...
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7734
    Depends on the workshop floor construction and how easily it transmits. The lower the frquency the more onmi directional and longer the wavelength, so the lowest frequencies might travel farther than you expect. Finding a good crossover frequency on an unmatched system could be a headache too. Large quality speakers may be preferable tonally anyway. 
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27590
    You both make excellent points which I should have considered.

    Some bigger wall speakers it is then. I'm sure one or other manufacturer will want to have a Surrey demo suite...
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11791
    Auralex claim that their foam is denser than normal or something, but probably BS, try out other materials first

    incidentally, when I had more guitar amps, I bought lots of Auralex drum riser pads, which are needed in large quantities, so are only £12 or something each, you could try some of those, I used to cut them in half with a breadknife
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11791
    Sub bass will get out into the house though

    I would guess that it might be hard to marry up new subs with old FR units
    Almost no one sells passive subs which I guess you'd typically use with old passive (I assume) bookshelf speakers?
    I had a powered one once that I used with passive Wilmslow audio mini monitors, and it was OK, but my current matched set of Focal passive near fields (which have a switch to turn off the frequencies the sub will provide) + matching sub works way better.

    Have a look for old second hand passive subs, I bet they are cheap now
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    If you don't hear the sub woofer 'playing' in the room you are in, it is highly unlikely anyone in another room or house will hear it either.

    Active subs are the way to go.  REL, though costly, are among the best on the market.  I listened to music on a very old Arcam powered system that used a small REL sub and Rogers speakers last night.  Very nice it was too.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • GagarynGagaryn Frets: 1553
    edited April 2018
    Sub bass will get out into the house though

    I would guess that it might be hard to marry up new subs with old FR units
    Almost no one sells passive subs which I guess you'd typically use with old passive (I assume) bookshelf speakers?
    I had a powered one once that I used with passive Wilmslow audio mini monitors, and it was OK, but my current matched set of Focal passive near fields (which have a switch to turn off the frequencies the sub will provide) + matching sub works way better.

    Have a look for old second hand passive subs, I bet they are cheap now
    I've added an active sub to a set of small 6.5 inch FR bookshelfs - sub is a Velodyne from eBay, was about £80 I think. It's not the ideal solution and took a bit of fiddling but now works very well, set the crossover on the sub to 60Hz and took a bit of time to ensure everything was in phase - was trickier than expected doing that by ear but now I really don't notice the added sub until I turn it off! 
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27590
    If I do go for the sub option it'll either be one with a built in crossover and amp for the bookshelves, or I'd make an active crossover to split. 
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27590
    Hah!

    Feel free to laugh at me. 

    For the office, at least, it turns out I can go quite a lot louder without upsetting Lady BMcH, at which point the soundbase woofers get working properly and everything sounds magnificent.

    You'd think I'd understand that sort of thing. 
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  • Volume = Tone

    I thought all guitarists knew this
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