Mixer or other studio stuff for an idiot

ijonty

Hi folks,

I'm going to sort out my spare room with the basic kit I need to record. Sick of getting stuff out of cupboards, searching for extension leads, unplugging lamps, spending most of my time setting up, rather than actually playing.

I'm a real beginner, so all I've got so far is (apart from guitar, amp and pedal board obviously):

Macbook air
M-Audio studio speakers
TC Helicon Voicelive pedal and mic
SR-16 drum machine
Teenage Engineering PO-32
USB Audio interface (basic Alesis core 1)
iPad for synth apps

So (idiot question incoming...) what do I need to link all this together? Presumably a mixer? Or just a more fancy audio interface? Where do I start, and how am I best arranging it so that everything is connected, I can just switch it all on and get going, without loads of set up each time?

Any advice really appreciated.

Cheers,

Jon

Luminous

I would consider a mixer that is also a USB interface

Funkfingers

ijonty said:

Presumably a mixer? Or just a more fancy audio interface?

Consideration #1 - Estimate how many sound sources you are likely to need to record simultaneously.

IIRC, the SR-16 has Left, Right and a couple of additional mono output sockets. Count the SR-16 as four signals.


Consideration #2 - How confident are you about getting instrument group sub-mixes right first time? 

Taking the SR-16 as an example again, if you are happy to take the stereo overall sound *as is*, tap off the snare drum and one other for separate processing and, then, blend the results as one stereo source, this will save time later in the music making process.

If you prefer to keep your options open as long as possible into a music project, record everything separately.


Consideration #3 - Money versus convenience.

A pre-owned analogue console with thirty-something input channel strips is likely to cost less than in audio/MIDI in/out box with thirty-something sockets and all of the metering and conversion chips. The *price* for a hardware mixing console is that it occupies a lot of space and requires miles of good quality cables. 

The advantage of the big in/out box option is that all of the mixing and interconnection is done virtually. The DAW makes all of the necessary connections and remembers settings. 

The disadvantage of this is that happy accidents are less likely to happen. Some of our favourite sounds occurred by chance because somebody plugged something in the wrong way around or there was a level mismatch that happened to sound interesting despite being "wrong".

spark240

Budget ?

ijonty

spark240 said:

Budget ?

Is £250 unrealistic? I've really no idea what I need to spend. Just to be clear: I've never recorded music and am a total beginner, so am not expecting something that will create such quality recordings that they can be released to my army of fans. Just something for my own enjoyment.

ijonty

Funkfingers said:

ijonty said:

Presumably a mixer? Or just a more fancy audio interface?

Consideration #1 - Estimate how many sound sources you are likely to need to record simultaneously.

IIRC, the SR-16 has Left, Right and a couple of additional mono output sockets. Count the SR-16 as four signals.

Consideration #2 - How confident are you about getting instrument group sub-mixes right first time? 

Taking the SR-16 as an example again, if you are happy to take the stereo overall sound *as is*, tap off the snare drum and one other for separate processing and, then, blend the results as one stereo source, this will save time later in the music making process.

If you prefer to keep your options open as long as possible into a music project, record everything separately.


Consideration #3 - Money versus convenience.

A pre-owned analogue console with thirty-something input channel strips is likely to cost less than in audio/MIDI in/out box with thirty-something sockets and all of the metering and conversion chips. The *price* for a hardware mixing console is that it occupies a lot of space and requires miles of good quality cables. 

The advantage of the big in/out box option is that all of the mixing and interconnection is done virtually. The DAW makes all of the necessary connections and remembers settings. 

The disadvantage of this is that happy accidents are less likely to happen. Some of our favourite sounds occurred by chance because somebody plugged something in the wrong way around or there was a level mismatch that happened to sound interesting despite being "wrong".

Now, I'm already out of my depth here. I've borrowed the SR-16 from a friend yesterday, so never used it before. I won't be separating signals though - I'm far more amateur than that. Just one signal from it would be fine. At most, I'd probably be recording three signals at once - guitar, vocal and SR-16.

I don't know what a "pre-owned analogue console" is, nor an "audio/MIDI in/out box". Can you give me examples of what those are?

Also, as I mentioned in previous reply: I'm a total beginner with this stuff.

absolutpepper

I think your choices depend on what you are planning to record. If you are only looking to do one or two sources at a time (guitar, vox, keys, etc) and then overdub then a 2 input interface will be fine. I wouldn’t recommend a single input interface as it will limit your stereo options. However if you are looking to record drums, full band or multiple sources then you probably need an 8 input interface as a minimum. 

In in terms of mixer vs audio interface...it’s a personal preference. An analog interface will limit your mixing options in the daw, whereas a digital mixer will allow multiple channels to be recorded simultaneously and sent to individual tracks - however for a cost effective setup it’s probably better to just get a good multi channel interface and then mix within the daw itself. 

I started out with a Focusrite scarlett 2i2, then upgraded to a 2i4 and now I’m on an 18i20 as I’m recording drums, etc and expanding my recording chops. I’ve had good experience with the Scarlett’s as they offer good quality/price ratio, they are plug and play with Mac, have decent preamps, and also have some nice features like clipping indicators on the knobs, etc (all handy for the newby). 

If your budget allows maybe look at whatever scarlett’s Include adat. That way you can buy an interface with fewer ins/outs at the start and then expand without needing to buy a whole new interface.

mostly have fun and enjoy. If you want any more info drop me a pm and I’ll answer what I can. I can’t profess to being a total pro, but I’ve been in your shoes and I’ve learned some lessons along the way.  Also double check your Mac and see if it has usb/thunderbolt or FireWire....the newer macs don’t include FireWire so that rules a lot of interfaces out (this is also partly why the Scarlett is my recommendation).

mistercharlie

I think you have enough to get started. Instead of buying stuff now that may turn out to be wrong for what you need, just put that together and start recording. Then buy stuff as you realize you need it. 

The Alesis only takes one input at a time, but I have a dual-input USB audio interface/mixer, and I almost never use both at the same time. 

Get GarageBand for your Mac. It’s typical Apple semi-pro software — frustrating at first, but amazing once you get used to it. There are plenty of other DAWs, but GB is free, and has some killer features for the lone musician — the Drummer is worth it alone. 

One thing you might need right now is a mic, if you’re planning to sing or mic an amp. Otherwise just start!

Bod

absolutpepper said:

In in terms of mixer vs audio interface...it’s a personal preference. An analog interface will limit your mixing options in the daw, whereas a digital mixer will allow multiple channels to be recorded simultaneously and sent to individual tracks - however for a cost effective setup it’s probably better to just get a good multi channel interface and then mix within the daw itself. 

I started out with a Focusrite scarlett 2i2, then upgraded to a 2i4 and now I’m on an 18i20 as I’m recording drums, etc and expanding my recording chops. I’ve had good experience with the Scarlett’s as they offer good quality/price ratio, they are plug and play with Mac, have decent preamps, and also have some nice features like clipping indicators on the knobs, etc (all handy for the newby). 

Good advice from @absolutpepper there.  I ditched my mixer in favour of a Scarlett 18i8 a few years ago.  Not only is my setup less complicated now, but the provision of an optical input means I can expand easily if I need to.  The 18i8 also provides a MIDI interface so you could remove the Alesis unit from your setup too.

maltingsaudio

Have a look at the Allen and Heath Zedi 10 http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/zedi-10/ should do what you want and drivers for Mac are native so very easy to get started with

Winny_Pooh

Do not buy a mixer unless you solely need to route multiple inputs to your monitors for live playing the op-1, drum machine etc.

IMO you need a recording interface with more inputs so you can have all this gear already plugged in for recording and then use your DAW or interface mixer software to sum the inputs. 

ijonty

Thanks all.

So the suggestions (the ones my limited technical brain can fully understand) range from:

@mistercharlie - stick with what I've got. I guess what I'm really only having a problem with is simply recording with guitar into the interface, faffing about unplugging the lead and swapping over to a mic or other source, then more faff if I want to record drums or whatever. Sort of just want to have everything permanently plugged in so I can switch between things easier.

So does that mean...

@absolutpepper and @Bod ; - choose one of the Focusrite Scarlett things? There seem to be endless ones of those to choose from, along with 1st and second gen. So would all of these remove the need for the Alesis interface? @Bod seems to be suggesting that I'd need the 18i8 for that, or have I misunderstood? Can't quite work out which one I'd need based on the list of potential inputs in the OP. 

Or of course, there's:

@maltingsaudio - Zedi 10 desk. I just wonder if that's getting too complex for me, or is it deceptive and not really any more technical than the Focusrite?

maltingsaudio

Zedi10 is £165 from GAK, gives you 4 in and 4out recording and from your kit list you can have it all plugged in at the same time, and the option to use it as a stand alone mixer, if your after a more sophisticated recording system with more ins and outs then go focusrite scarlet 1818 but that is over twice the price of the Zed

absolutpepper

maltingsaudio said:

Zedi10 is £165 from GAK, gives you 4 in and 4out recording and from your kit list you can have it all plugged in at the same time, and the option to use it as a stand alone mixer, if your after a more sophisticated recording system with more ins and outs then go focusrite scarlet 1818 but that is over twice the price of the Zed

The 18i8 is currently £277 in GAK so not over twice the price, it also has better mic pre’s than the zed and if mixing can be achieved in a DAW and budget allows I would always suggest a standalone interface first and foremost. Also, the ADAT option futureproofs the unit from an expansion point of view. Nothing wrong with the Zed but if the OPs budget allows, they’ll likely have a better option with the 18i8.

maltingsaudio

Er ADAT option future proofs it?

absolutpepper

maltingsaudio said:

Er ADAT option future proofs it?

Yep, from the perspective that if you need more i/o you don’t need to get rid of the unit

maltingsaudio

@absolutpepper  Ok see where your coming from, as I said if the OP wants a sophisticated system then the 1818 is ideal, and this also assumes he'll be able to figure out either system. My take on setting up from scratch first time is multi function kit as opposed to dedicated kit as it is the more effective route should he get bored with recording. Also with a standalone mixer you don't have to switch the computer on every time you want to  just to play with your gear, so the computer frustration can be kept to a minimum.

I would add that I hate recording with a vengeance, but having seen how easy my QU16 set itself up with Logic on a mac was a real eye opener in the yes I can use this easily stakes. Previous attempts using a PC and Traktion where just a frustrating mind fuck trying to get stuff out of the computer on initial set up as windows and the programme  wouldn't let me route the returns sensibly. Thread here http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/121396/traktion-problem#latest

ijonty

Appreciate both your comments @absolutpepper and @maltingsaudio .

I'd not thought about the fact that the mixer cuts out the need for the mac completely. Though actually, it's perhaps less about having something ready to play, than having something ready to record ideas.

wave100

ijonty said:

Hi folks,

I'm going to sort out my spare room with the basic kit I need to record. Sick of getting stuff out of cupboards, searching for extension leads, unplugging lamps, spending most of my time setting up, rather than actually playing.

I'm a real beginner, so all I've got so far is (apart from guitar, amp and pedal board obviously):

Macbook air
M-Audio studio speakers
TC Helicon Voicelive pedal and mic
SR-16 drum machine
Teenage Engineering PO-32
USB Audio interface (basic Alesis core 1)
iPad for synth apps

So (idiot question incoming...) what do I need to link all this together? Presumably a mixer? Or just a more fancy audio interface? Where do I start, and how am I best arranging it so that everything is connected, I can just switch it all on and get going, without loads of set up each time?

Any advice really appreciated.

Cheers,

Jon

I would recommend a MIDI keyboard controller for the IOS synths as well, you can hook the iPad up with Bluetooth MIDI.

Wazmeister

Jon,

Im a newbie in this field myself, and only a few weeks in front of you...

Over Easter, I purchased a few things to try and compare, using their excellent returns policy. The Focusrite stuff really stood out in terms of ease of use (needed to be dead simple) and good support videos.

The Scarlett 2i4 is excellent.

ijonty

Wazmeister said:

Jon,

Im a newbie in this field myself, and only a few weeks in front of you...

Over Easter, I purchased a few things to try and compare, using their excellent returns policy. The Focusrite stuff really stood out in terms of ease of use (needed to be dead simple) and good support videos.

The Scarlett 2i4 is excellent.

Cheers Wazmeister - decided to go for Focusrite. Arrived today, but not had my first go yet...