What a waste of an evening

VimFuego

golf would be better if they had more castles and windmills and stuff. 

fandango

Rocker said:

@fandango ;
Anyone who thinks can see that golf is a strategic game. You hit the ball to the place that makes your next shot easier. Easier that is, than it would be if you hit it to the wrong place (into trees or rough for example). That is why it is a strategic game, such a great game. Try it and let us know how you get on. 

Golf is a very linear game. Very little scope for strategy. Except for hitting it longer off a tee, and putting well enough on the greens. But I like your thinking nonetheless. Have a LOL.

TTBZ

Golf, the only thing more dull than cricket. Baffles me that people can get excited about such things.

EricTheWeary

fandango said:

Rocker said:

@fandango ;;
Anyone who thinks can see that golf is a strategic game. You hit the ball to the place that makes your next shot easier. Easier that is, than it would be if you hit it to the wrong place (into trees or rough for example). That is why it is a strategic game, such a great game. Try it and let us know how you get on. 

Golf is a very linear game. Very little scope for strategy. Except for hitting it longer off a tee, and putting well enough on the greens. But I like your thinking nonetheless. Have a LOL.

Golf is non interactive turn taking like darts or the shot put so, to me, it’s more like a past time or exercise than a sport ( my definition of sport probably eliminates half of what’s in the Olympics but would include Jenga so I know I’m onto a loser here). However, unlike say darts, it isn’t the same thing every time as course designs vary, there can be multiple ways to approach the same hole and the weather can be a factor ( effects how quickly the greens run for example). I think those things come loosely under strategy. 

p90fool

EricTheWeary said:

fandango said:

Rocker said:

@fandango ;;;
Anyone who thinks can see that golf is a strategic game. You hit the ball to the place that makes your next shot easier. Easier that is, than it would be if you hit it to the wrong place (into trees or rough for example). That is why it is a strategic game, such a great game. Try it and let us know how you get on. 

Golf is a very linear game. Very little scope for strategy. Except for hitting it longer off a tee, and putting well enough on the greens. But I like your thinking nonetheless. Have a LOL.

Golf is non interactive turn taking like darts or the shot put so, to me, it’s more like a past time or exercise than a sport ( my definition of sport probably eliminates half of what’s in the Olympics but would include Jenga so I know I’m onto a loser here). However, unlike say darts, it isn’t the same thing every time as course designs vary, there can be multiple ways to approach the same hole and the weather can be a factor ( effects how quickly the greens run for example). I think those things come loosely under strategy. 

I think those things just come under 'skill'.

The strategy remains the same for every hole, every time, ie, the smallest number of strokes. You don't 'hold back' strategically at any point. 

Even something seemingly as simple as winning an 800m race depends on timing, deception and interaction with that of your rivals. 

In golf none of the competitors are playing against each other at all, they're playing against the course designer who probably isn't actually present and may even be dead. 

mrkb

axisus said:

Watch someone hit a little ball into a hole from a long way off, not in an amazing one off shot, but repeatedly hitting it until it finally goes in.
Watch them do it 72 times over four days.
Watch another 45 or so people also do it 72 times.
Watch another 45 or so people also do it 36 times. 

What part of anyone finds that an interesting thing to watch?

It’s like tidying up outdoors. 

A sport must be measurement based (not based on judges scores) and involve more effort than the equivalent time spent walking. Golf fails on the second point.

EricTheWeary

p90fool said:

EricTheWeary said:

fandango said:

Rocker said:

@fandango ;;;
Anyone who thinks can see that golf is a strategic game. You hit the ball to the place that makes your next shot easier. Easier that is, than it would be if you hit it to the wrong place (into trees or rough for example). That is why it is a strategic game, such a great game. Try it and let us know how you get on. 

Golf is a very linear game. Very little scope for strategy. Except for hitting it longer off a tee, and putting well enough on the greens. But I like your thinking nonetheless. Have a LOL.

Golf is non interactive turn taking like darts or the shot put so, to me, it’s more like a past time or exercise than a sport ( my definition of sport probably eliminates half of what’s in the Olympics but would include Jenga so I know I’m onto a loser here). However, unlike say darts, it isn’t the same thing every time as course designs vary, there can be multiple ways to approach the same hole and the weather can be a factor ( effects how quickly the greens run for example). I think those things come loosely under strategy. 

I think those things just come under 'skill'.

The strategy remains the same for every hole, every time, ie, the smallest number of strokes. You don't 'hold back' strategically at any point. 

Even something seemingly as simple as winning an 800m race depends on timing, deception and interaction with that of your rivals. 

In golf none of the competitors are playing against each other at all, they're playing against the course designer who probably isn't actually present and may even be dead. 



I wouldn't cling to the word strategy but golf has a reasonable number of variables ( some of which you know in advance, some on the day, some as the game progresses) and there are a reasonable number of ways of reacting. So there is more to it than just the physical skill set and more to it than might be obvious to a casual observer. There must be variables in international shot putting but I'd say it's broader in golf. 
But certainly it lacks the variable of interaction with other players beyond who has the best score. 

fandango

There are a number of "sports" where there is no interaction between competing sides. i.e. your score* is not dependent upon other competitors. * as differentiated from the match/game/competition result/placing.

We've mentioned that Golf is one. But there's also synchronised swimming, darts, figure skating, skiing, luge, skeleton, bobsleigh, javelin, discus, shot putt, high jump, long jump, triple jump, pole vault, gymnastics, diving, canoeing, weightlifting, show jumping. There's also cycling time trialling on road, but concede there is the possibility of direct head to head between competitors since they technically share the same course at the same time.

For those non-interactive 'individual' sports, I suggest there's very little 'strategy' going on. It's all about you and what you're capable of. You could get a personal best score or time and not win. You could keep on improving that score/time over months and years yet still never win a competition. That improvement comes by sheer effort and mind-over-matter, not strategy. You might have a plan of which races to run, but it's not 'strategy'.

'Strategy' surely only comes into play where there's a genuinely interactive element to the competition - e.g rugby match, marathon race, cycling road race (or even a board game like Monopoly or Settlers of Catan) - and becomes more pertinent the more factors there are (number of competitors & their strengths/weaknesses, timescales, weather, obstacles, handicaps). I suggest there is far more strategy, say, to the Tour de France, than a simple football game, but it's still there. Unlike golf, which could be considered an adult version of whack-a-mole but with a small white ball. Where's the 'strategy' in that?

Phil_aka_Pip

Rocker said:

hywelg said:

Rocker said? To play golf you need to use your brain....

To play golf you demonstrably have not used your brain otherwise you would be in the pub.

Wrong! After the round you repair to the clubhouse (aka the 19th) for some liquid refreshment 

The smart thing to do is forget the 1st 18 holes and get straight to the drinking. Plus the pub has no entrance or membership fee and probably keep a better selection of real ales. EDIT and no dress code

Funkfingers

I subscribe to the Billy Connolly theory about the origins of Golf.

Two trespassers get caught by the ghillies and asked to explain what they are doing on the laird's estate. They claim to have got carried away, playing a game that they have just invented - which they then have to describe in some detail.

The remainder of the Connolly routine probably overlaps a great deal with the Robin Williams one. I do not know whether Williams or Connolly came up with the idea first.

VimFuego

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Rocker said:

hywelg said:

Rocker said? To play golf you need to use your brain....

To play golf you demonstrably have not used your brain otherwise you would be in the pub.

Wrong! After the round you repair to the clubhouse (aka the 19th) for some liquid refreshment 

The smart thing to do is forget the 1st 18 holes and get straight to the drinking. Plus the pub has no entrance or membership fee and probably keep a better selection of real ales. EDIT and no dress code

plus there's at least a chance there won't be any golf wankers in the pub.

Rocker

I consider golf to be a game. Some call it a sport but I am indifferent to golf being called that.

The issue of strategy requires expanding.  Most golf players know nothing about course strategy. They stand on the tee box and hit the ball as far as possible, with no eye for an easier second shot or a thought on how to play the hole as the designer designed it. For example, the green might be sloped from back to front and from right to left (when viewed from the tee). And two green side bunkers protecting or defining the green,  one front right, the other side left. The obvious approach is from slightly left where the player can bump and run the ball to the green, between the bunkers, knowing the slope of the green will stop the ball. A shot to that green from the right means/requires a high pitch over the bunker to an away sloping green with the possibility of ending up in the far bunker. Most players hit driver with a right shaped curl on the ball flight (slice or fade depending on severity of the curl). Irons hit the ball straighter so an iron off the tee slightly left of centre of the fairway puts you in the best position to end up on the green with your next shot. Not as macho as using the expensive driver but better for scoring. Using your brains, employing course strategy to get the ball into the hole in the fewest number of shots.

Using length can be strategic but only if the ball ends up at the required area of the fairway. Not in the rough or amongst the trees. Or lost or out of bounds!

Moominpapa

Chess is strategic. Golf I would suggest is far more tactical than strategic.

munckee

57Deluxe said:

That's nothing - I wasted 6 weeks watching Marcella...

I watched every episode of lost...

Bridgehouse

Gentlemen Only Little Frustrated. 

Rocker

Moominpapa said:

Chess is strategic. Golf I would suggest is far more tactical than strategic.

No, golf is only tactical if the game is match play. Most golf is stroke play (actually scoring Stableford points or V Par). You play against the whole field rather than your immediate opponent. Scorecards are checked after everyone has completed their round and the winner determined at that stage.

In match play, you play against your fellow player. It does not matter how many shots you take at each hole, "all" you need to do is take one shot less than him at one hole and match his score for every other hole, then you win the match. Great fun but rarely used. 

I agree with your assertion that chess is strategic. As is football, marathon running etc etc

Phil_aka_Pip