Playing over changes - Guthrie Trapp with Papastache

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Guthries Trapp is absolutley amazing IMO - taste, tone and melody!

Anyway thought you might like this link as he goes through his approach to playing over changes,


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  • brilliant thanks for posting
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  • BradBrad Frets: 215
    A great player and really clear, good advice too. I'll be stealing some of those lines!
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  • mburekengemburekenge Frets: 663
    Brad said:
    A great player and really clear, good advice too. I'll be stealing some of those lines!
    Yeah. Guthrie is great.  Lava cables have a clinic on the tube with him and Josh smith on a similar topic which is also well worth checking out.

    I thought Brett pappa did a great job here. It's so effortless for GT that he can expand deeper and deeper. I thought Brett helped keep it accessible to mere mortals.

    Im gonna be nicking those lines too!
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  • AlexOAlexO Frets: 347
    Great thanks for posting. The colour of that 335 is stunning also!
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  • ModellistaModellista Frets: 951
    Don't want to micturate on anyone's chips but isn't that first 90 seconds just a bit of major pentatonic widdling with a few double stops thrown in for good measure?
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  • BradBrad Frets: 215
    Don't want to micturate on anyone's chips but isn't that first 90 seconds just a bit of major pentatonic widdling with a few double stops thrown in for good measure?
    I think we’re hearing very different things in that case :smile: 
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  • Matt_McGMatt_McG Frets: 121
    Whenever I watch all those country based session players -- or really country/jazz/RnB -- even going back to people like Reggie Young, what's clear is that they aren't doing anything particularly "clever" harmonically. But what they have completely nailed, is the basics, everywhere on the neck. So, they REALLY know every triad, every chord, every inversion of those chords, playing them in a single position, playing them up and down the neck. And they know all of the chord tones, their role in the relevant scale, etc. Just the fundamentals, but they know it with a depth and clarity that most players, even really good players, don't have.

    So they can just play over anything, and make it sounds melodic, and play an accompaniment that has loads of voice leading and harmonic movement, off the cuff.

    I mean, I can do that a bit, and if you asked me to tell you the 2nd inversion of X chord at N fret, or whatever I could do it. Perhaps even without a massive amount of thought. But I couldn't do it while improvising a fluid, interesting, melodic rhythm part over a tune I'd never heard before, and just been handed a skeleton chart for.
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  • bingefellerbingefeller Frets: 5526
    Don't want to micturate on anyone's chips but isn't that first 90 seconds just a bit of major pentatonic widdling with a few double stops thrown in for good measure?
    He's just got better note choice and phrasing than most of us lol.  

    I use to think that a lot of these great players were doing something different scale and note wise than most people, but they're not.  I had someone transcribe me some Pat Metheny solos to see what the magic formula was and there isn't one - he too was using basic CAGED and scalar patterns, just with incredible nuanced phrasing.
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  • Part 2 just up. Also amazing!
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  • vizviz Frets: 5166
    edited December 2018
    Don't want to micturate on anyone's chips but isn't that first 90 seconds just a bit of major pentatonic widdling with a few double stops thrown in for good measure?
    Well it’s the major scale actually because he plays the 4th and the 7th as well as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th. But essentially yes, you’re right. It’s just plain and simple noodling in the E major scale. 

    Though, over such a simple and repetitive progression, there’s not much else that can be done to it, other than doing it more melodically I suppose. 
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  • viz said:7
    Don't want to micturate on anyone's chips but isn't that first 90 seconds just a bit of major pentatonic widdling with a few double stops thrown in for good measure?
    Well it’s the major scale actually because he plays the 4th and the 7th as well as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th. But essentially yes, you’re right. It’s just plain and simple noodling in the E major scale. 

    Though, over such a simple and repetitive progression, there’s not much else that can be done to it, other than doing it more melodically I suppose. 
    Got to disagree. When I hear the phrase 'noodling' I think of wanky one scale over each chord. E.g. crap YouTube guitarist shredding minor pent or  Dorian over a progression with no contour or consideration for chord tones
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  • vizviz Frets: 5166
    edited December 2018
    viz said:7
    Don't want to micturate on anyone's chips but isn't that first 90 seconds just a bit of major pentatonic widdling with a few double stops thrown in for good measure?
    Well it’s the major scale actually because he plays the 4th and the 7th as well as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th. But essentially yes, you’re right. It’s just plain and simple noodling in the E major scale. 

    Though, over such a simple and repetitive progression, there’s not much else that can be done to it, other than doing it more melodically I suppose. 
    Got to disagree. When I hear the phrase 'noodling' I think of wanky one scale over each chord. E.g. crap YouTube guitarist shredding minor pent or  Dorian over a progression with no contour or consideration for chord tones
    That’s fine, if you like it and find artistry in it then cool.

    My point is that in a continually cycling vi-V-I progression there’s virtually nothing to inspire melody, which is why he doesn’t really play any, and if you were to remove the chords and just strum the E major (or even if you were to play an E sine wave!) his playing would fit just as well, so I don’t really see that as an exemplar of playing over changes. But again this is art so that’s good that we disagree!

    Edit: Lovely technique though, so fluid, and he gets gorgeous sounds out of the instrument!
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 367
    I think the vid is a perfect example of simple ideas made very effective by great timing and phrasing ... in my opinion this bridges the gap between a good player and a great player
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1487

    Guitar players get too obsessed with finding the "magic" notes.

    There aren't any: it's all in the phrasing.

    This sadly seems to be neglected by most guitarists in my experience.
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1487
    Don't want to micturate on anyone's chips but isn't that first 90 seconds just a bit of major pentatonic widdling with a few double stops thrown in for good measure?
    That's why it sounds good................
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  • jpfamps said:

    Guitar players get too obsessed with finding the "magic" notes.

    There aren't any: it's all in the phrasing.

    This sadly seems to be neglected by most guitarists in my experience.

    You're 100% right - over the years I had someone transcribe my favourite solos by guys like Mike Landau, Jeff Kollman, Jay Graydon, Pat Metheny and Jonathan Kreisberg, thinking they were playing magic notes.  I came to discover that 99% of the time they weren't using any way out scales, just great nuanced phrasing, being aware of chord tones and also having a good tone helps. 
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  • neilgneilg Frets: 22
    That sounds like all notes are equal, it's just that some are more equal than others.
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