Line 6 powercab

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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    Has anyone been able to compare one to a DXR10 ? 
    "Congratulations on being officially the most right anyone has ever been about anything, ever." -- Noisepolluter knows the score
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090
    TimmyO said:
    Has anyone been able to compare one to a DXR10 ? 
    Mine is inbound at some point today, so when I have it in my grubby mitts I shall be doing just that.
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    Cool
    "Congratulations on being officially the most right anyone has ever been about anything, ever." -- Noisepolluter knows the score
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090
    Powercab Plus is in the house! I’ve had a brief few minutes with it and I think we’re going to be friends. I haven’t fiddled about with any settings, just switched it on (it defaults to flat mode) and tried a couple of my gigging patches though it. And it sounds, well, good! Does it sound massively different to the QSC K8.2 or DXR10 I usually use at gigs? Hmm, hard to say at this stage. My immediate concern with it was the apparent lack of volume on tap... I ended up with the Powercab dimed and Helix around half way up: it was loud, but gig loud? I’m not so sure... It’s not a massive concern for me as I have no intention of gigging it, and its plenty loud enough for studio/home use. I’ll delve into it a bit more when I have some surplus time.
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 2816
    I default to Helix output up full - not sure why you'd do anything else when trying to get loud - plus it's the easiest setting to replicate consistently ! Do the turning down where there are numbers to see 
    "Congratulations on being officially the most right anyone has ever been about anything, ever." -- Noisepolluter knows the score
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090
    TimmyO said:
    I default to Helix output up full - not sure why you'd do anything else when trying to get loud - plus it's the easiest setting to replicate consistently ! Do the turning down where there are numbers to see 
    To clarify, I was feeding the Powercab from the monitor out which is linked to the Helix volume knob. FOH gets the full beans from the XLR outs... I like to have control over my own monitor volume hence the volume knob only affecting the monitor out.

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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 1240
    edited May 14
    TimmyO said:
    I default to Helix output up full - not sure why you'd do anything else when trying to get loud - plus it's the easiest setting to replicate consistently ! Do the turning down where there are numbers to see 
    I use the volume knob to control my stage (pub floor) level and default the main outs to be 0db.  If the knob is only half-way there should be a lot more left
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  • matt1973matt1973 Frets: 274
    Well mine came today and I’ve managed to spend about an hour on it.

    So, first thing I did was set it Flat and call up my main preset that I use through my DXR10. Oh dear, what a sinking feeling. However, as it turns out, that just goes to show that even in the world of FRFR all things are not created equal.

    I went on disabled the Helix IR and used the Powercabs on board speaker sims. Loved the Greenback. Spent some time tweaking my patch to suit the Powercab and really enjoyed the resulting tones. There’s certainly an amp-like thump to thing that you don’t really get with conventional PA gear. I’m not sure you quite get the complexity in the high end that you get from certain tube amps but it is a definite step toward the ‘amp in room’ goal so many modelling advocates crave.

    Pretty certain I’ll be keeping it.
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  • I use Helix into my amp with a second feed going through a Soldano clean amp model into a v30 IR to front of house. I also have a FlyrRigas back up.

    Is this going to be a no brained for me to

    a) play in stereo
    b) have a back up/secondary solution with the FlyRig?
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  • StinkfootStinkfoot Frets: 14
    Picked up my Powercab on Monday and have been spending much time with it and my Helix, just A/B-ing with my DXR10. I think it sounds perfectly fine and will do a job for lots of people who need the versatility of a traditional amp set-up, and the flexibility to go FRFR when needed. Nice unit and looks good too. I did go a bit ear-blind comparing the various speaker sims, and kept finding myself going back to the setting with none of them enabled so you just get the in-built speaker on its own!
    However, I don't know if it's because I've invested so much time this last year in fine-tuning my sounds into the DXR10 (and also embracing the whole FRFR/Direct to PA thing) but I came to the conclusion I actually prefer what I've already got. The DXR10 does seem to have loads more volume on tap too.

    So the Powercab will be going back tomorrow unfortunately. If i have any gigs where the 'amp-in-the-room' sound is better suited, then I've already got a tried and tested HRD for that and the Helix can just be used as a pedalboard.

    I really wanted to like the Powercab more, and if I hadn't already invested in a quality speaker I'm sure I would have kept it. But it's nice to know that sometimes you prefer the gear you've already spent so much time with....my Visa card statement agrees too!

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  • WazmeisterWazmeister Frets: 3630
    simonk said:
    TimmyO said:
    I default to Helix output up full - not sure why you'd do anything else when trying to get loud - plus it's the easiest setting to replicate consistently ! Do the turning down where there are numbers to see 
    To clarify, I was feeding the Powercab from the monitor out which is linked to the Helix volume knob. FOH gets the full beans from the XLR outs... I like to have control over my own monitor volume hence the volume knob only affecting the monitor out.

    How are you finding it then mate ?
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090
    simonk said:
    TimmyO said:
    I default to Helix output up full - not sure why you'd do anything else when trying to get loud - plus it's the easiest setting to replicate consistently ! Do the turning down where there are numbers to see 
    To clarify, I was feeding the Powercab from the monitor out which is linked to the Helix volume knob. FOH gets the full beans from the XLR outs... I like to have control over my own monitor volume hence the volume knob only affecting the monitor out.

    How are you finding it then mate ?
    I like it. I’ve haven’t had a huge amount of time to spend with it but initial fiddlings have been positive. I’ve switched to connecting it via Line6 Link. I like the built in speaker models: pick a Fender amp in the Helix and the Jensen speaker model in the Powercab and it sounds good to me. I’ll definitely be keeping it as it’s earned it’s place for home use and I’m also interested to see what else L6 does with it with future updates.
    As it stands though, I don’t think it’s loud enough to gig with... my DXR10 and QSC K8.2 leave it for dead there.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 11574
    simonk said:

    As it stands though, I don’t think it’s loud enough to gig with... my DXR10 and QSC K8.2 leave it for dead there.
    Ah, dammit. I was just warming up to buy one ;)

    Seriously, though...something like this would be bloody marvellous, if only for the fact that my car's tiny and cutting down from a 2x12" to a 1x12" would've solved a lot of issues. My problem with it - and I suspect it's similar to a lot of folks - is that speaker modelling is a wonderful technology, but it necessarily produces the amp-in-the-room sound of a 1x12" if you don't use an IR. I don't want to sound like I'm playing through a 1x12", and I use the Matrix NL212 for that very reason.
    "Mains is ouchy if you get it up you" - Sporky
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090
    simonk said:

    As it stands though, I don’t think it’s loud enough to gig with... my DXR10 and QSC K8.2 leave it for dead there.
    Ah, dammit. I was just warming up to buy one ;)
    ...
    As with most things in Helix land there may very well be a workaround...

    I’ve not looked at the levels in the output block or global EQ yet. A gain block last in chain is an option. I’m sure there are others - it might just involve a different mindset to ‘straight to the PA’.
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  • WazmeisterWazmeister Frets: 3630
    Bear in mind the DXR 10 (which is excellent and I own 2) is 1100 w !!!!


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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 1240
    Also the DXR is much louder than you'd ever need, I use mine as a monitor, and it's probably running at 1/10
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090
    Hmm, just had a quick 5 minutes with it before heading out to work. Powercab dimed, Helix dimed and output set to L6 Link. You can get a fair bit more volume using the output block... I had it up to +16dB by which time it was LOUD but pretty noisy and peaking the input of the Powercab.
    So, unless I’m being a complete cretin (very probable) and don’t have something set right I still don’t think it has enough grunt to gig with a moderately enthusiastic drummer.
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090

    Bear in mind the DXR 10 (which is excellent and I own 2) is 1100 w !!!!



    Yeah, fair point Waz. My little QSC is 2000w. But then the little Alto TX8 I cart around as a spare monitor is only 140w continuous and it easily owns the PC volume wise.
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  • Musicman20Musicman20 Frets: 387
    Why on earth would they release it if it can't keep up with small rehearsal/small gig requirements?
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 11574
    simonk said:

    Bear in mind the DXR 10 (which is excellent and I own 2) is 1100 w !!!!



    Yeah, fair point Waz. My little QSC is 2000w. But then the little Alto TX8 I cart around as a spare monitor is only 140w continuous and it easily owns the PC volume wise.
    Yeah, my Alto TS210 is quite loud and okay for rehearsals with the rhythm volume, but as soon as I go to a lead sound it peaks out with no more headroom. That said, it's fine for personal monitoring on stage, I'd just never be able to use it for a backline gig with no direct-to-PA reinforcement.
    Why on earth would they release it if it can't keep up with small rehearsal/small gig requirements?
    I suspect it's for on-stage monitoring only, and to prove the concept's workable. I wouldn't be surprised if they brought out a 2x12" model at some point, or even a higher-powered 1x12" that can behave like a 2x12".
    "Mains is ouchy if you get it up you" - Sporky
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 1240
    From the Line 6 web-site

    'Powercabs are also loud enough to fill any small club or medium-sized venue'

    Would be disappointing if it wasnt
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090
    digitalscream said:

    ...
    Why on earth would they release it if it can't keep up with small rehearsal/small gig requirements?
    I suspect it's for on-stage monitoring only, and to prove the concept's workable. I wouldn't be surprised if they brought out a 2x12" model at some point, or even a higher-powered 1x12" that can behave like a 2x12".

    Bang on I reckon. The outside of the manual reads “Powercab Family”... if that’s anything to go by. The concept is good and the software works well. There has to be more to follow... a 1500w 2x12 (preferably neo’s) would be excellent.
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  • Dan_HalenDan_Halen Frets: 53
    I still don't understand what it's trying to achieve. You can change the speaker that is modelled? Can you not just do that on the Helix or whatever you're using?

    What is the difference between turning off modelling in your Helix and using the Powercab to model a specific 1x12 and just using it FRFR and using a 1x12 IR with the same speaker model? Is the implication that the Powercab can do it better somehow?

    I'm not being awkward - I just can't see what the difference is beyond where the modelling happens and why that would make a difference.
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090
    edited May 25
    Dan_Halen said:
    I still don't understand what it's trying to achieve. You can change the speaker that is modelled? Can you not just do that on the Helix or whatever you're using?

    What is the difference between turning off modelling in your Helix and using the Powercab to model a specific 1x12 and just using it FRFR and using a 1x12 IR with the same speaker model? Is the implication that the Powercab can do it better somehow?

    I'm not being awkward - I just can't see what the difference is beyond where the modelling happens and why that would make a difference.
    The Powercab is removing a mic ‘listening’ to the speaker from the chain.

    So, choosing a cab block or IR in the Helix gives you a speaker and mic combination. The Powercab offers you 6 modelled speakers (minus the mic(s) giving you, in theory, more of the amp in a room type sound.
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 1240
    Dan_Halen said:
    I still don't understand what it's trying to achieve. You can change the speaker that is modelled? Can you not just do that on the Helix or whatever you're using?

    What is the difference between turning off modelling in your Helix and using the Powercab to model a specific 1x12 and just using it FRFR and using a 1x12 IR with the same speaker model? Is the implication that the Powercab can do it better somehow?

    I'm not being awkward - I just can't see what the difference is beyond where the modelling happens and why that would make a difference.
    The Helix models a cab and microphone, so the output from that is what you would get to the desk if you mic'd a real cab.  The powercab emulates a cab 'in the room' so what you hear is what you would hear if you had a greenback (or whatever) in a 1x12 cab in the room with you.  

    In my experience, with a bit of EQ you can get very close to this anyway, so I suppose the difference is really ease of use:

    Helix->cab->mic->EQ  VS Helix ->powercab
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 11574
    Dan_Halen said:
    I still don't understand what it's trying to achieve. You can change the speaker that is modelled? Can you not just do that on the Helix or whatever you're using?

    What is the difference between turning off modelling in your Helix and using the Powercab to model a specific 1x12 and just using it FRFR and using a 1x12 IR with the same speaker model? Is the implication that the Powercab can do it better somehow?

    I'm not being awkward - I just can't see what the difference is beyond where the modelling happens and why that would make a difference.
    It's pretty simple, really. Every other solution out there - whether it's impulse responses or modelling - treats the speaker and the microphone in front of it as a single entity, ie you can't have speaker modelling without also modelling the microphone in front. That's why modellers always sound different to just listening to the sound coming from the speaker directly to your ears, without a microphone in between.

    What the Powercab does - in addition to the traditional approach above - is model the speaker on its own, without the mic between the speaker and your ears. That's what people talk about as the "amp in the room" sound.
    "Mains is ouchy if you get it up you" - Sporky
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 1240
    Phew!  Pretty consistent responses ;)
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1090
    edited May 25
  • Dan_HalenDan_Halen Frets: 53
    Nice one thanks guys!

    Next questions... does it actually make a tangible difference and is there a reason it couldn't just be incorporated into a new block in the Helix signal chain in a firmware update - is it not just essentially a fancy EQ? Is there a reason the modelling needs to be handled by the cab or is this just a way to try and sell a load of these things?
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