Tubescreamer settings to push through mix

AdamHarkusBlog

I've been experimenting with the TS (of my BOSS ME-80). Clean into my boss katana amp.

Would you max the volume of the TS, whilst backing off the gain ? 

Setup this way, the TS into the amp is a LOT louder than the amp clean, so I can't really disenagage the TS to get a useable clean, as the volumes is much lower. The only way to remedy this is by backing of the gain (less sustain) or backing off the volume (less 'push').

How are you setting up your TS into a clean amp ?

Do you also run it at a much higher volume than the amp?

colourofsound

Generally I wouldn't use a TS to push a clean amp. I use mine (a Mojo Hand Rook, which is a TS derivative) to push other dirt boxes or a dirty amp.

You're along the right path though; generally you have a higher volume than the gain for a mid-push.

What is your goal exactly?

EDIT: A Boss Katana is a solid state digital modelling amp, yes? And the ME-80 is a digital modelling pedal?

Chances are you won't get the effect you are looking for, as the initial design of a TS and the way it's used by the likes of Stevie Ray and John Mayer is for it to have analog components, reacting with the impedance of your guitar, with an analog tube amp. I'm quite possibly wrong, but someone will chime in if I am!

flying_pie

You can use it differently depending on the parameters and how the amp is set up. There are 4 basic ways you can use it. 

1. OD - To add grit to a clean amp I would keep the volume at unity or just slightly raised. and use the gain to add grit. You can also tweak the tone to give a bit more midrange. The simulation won't have the same effect as a Ts 808 pedal with a big mid bump. 

2. Lead boost - You can add grit and volume if you want to use it as a gain and volume boost for solos. 

3. METAL!!! TS works well into a crunchy or distorted amp to get a heavier tone. You'd use the volume to push the amp more with low gain on the pedal, so it's more of a clean boost than OD. 

4. Tone tweak - You can also set low gain on the pedal, volume at unity and adjust the tone so that it functions as a crude EQ pedal.

AdamHarkusBlog

colourofsound said:

Generally I wouldn't use a TS to push a clean amp. I use mine (a Mojo Hand Rook, which is a TS derivative) to push other dirt boxes or a dirty amp.

You're along the right path though; generally you have a higher volume than the gain for a mid-push.

What is your goal exactly?

EDIT: A Boss Katana is a solid state digital modelling amp, yes? And the ME-80 is a digital modelling pedal?

Chances are you won't get the effect you are looking for, as the initial design of a TS and the way it's used by the likes of Stevie Ray and John Mayer is for it to have analog components, reacting with the impedance of your guitar, with an analog tube amp. I'm quite possibly wrong, but someone will chime in if I am!

Yes Katana + Me are both solid state.

i'm just getting a 'Bigger','fuller' sound with the volume boosted, whereas with the volume set to match the amp clean volume, it just doesn't have much 'ooompf'.

I know the effect isnt' the same as a real TS into a tube amp, but ballpark is all I'm really after.

AdamHarkusBlog

flying_pie said:

You can use it differently depending on the parameters and how the amp is set up. There are 4 basic ways you can use it. 

1. OD - To add grit to a clean amp I would keep the volume at unity or just slightly raised. and use the gain to add grit. You can also tweak the tone to give a bit more midrange. The simulation won't have the same effect as a Ts 808 pedal with a big mid bump. 

2. Lead boost - You can add grit and volume if you want to use it as a gain and volume boost for solos. 

3. METAL!!! TS works well into a crunchy or distorted amp to get a heavier tone. You'd use the volume to push the amp more with low gain on the pedal, so it's more of a clean boost than OD. 

4. Tone tweak - You can also set low gain on the pedal, volume at unity and adjust the tone so that it functions as a crude EQ pedal.

Yeah absolutely option 1 for me... The only trouble is, unity volume is WAY louder than the bypassed clean, unless I back the gain almost off...

I'll experiment of course, but obviously a full-rehearsal / gigging situation isn't the place be experimenting.

Cirrus

AdamHarkusBlog said:

i'm just getting a 'Bigger','fuller' sound with the volume boosted, whereas with the volume set to match the amp clean volume, it just doesn't have much 'ooompf'.

Lesson one:

Louder always sounds better. And volume is always relative.

ICBM

AdamHarkusBlog said:

I've been experimenting with the TS (of my BOSS ME-80). Clean into my boss katana amp.

Would you max the volume of the TS, whilst backing off the gain ?

No. Never.

AdamHarkusBlog said:

How are you setting up your TS into a clean amp ?

Like this...

flying_pie said:

You can use it differently depending on the parameters and how the amp is set up. There are 4 basic ways you can use it.

1. OD - To add grit to a clean amp I would keep the volume at unity or just slightly raised. and use the gain to add grit. You can also tweak the tone to give a bit more midrange.

Although I would start with setting the amount of distortion you want and adjust the level afterwards, not the other way round.

flying_pie said:

The simulation won't have the same effect as a Ts 808 pedal with a big mid bump.

It will if the simulation is accurate. I haven't tried the ME-80, but the one on the ME-50 is pretty close.

AdamHarkusBlog

The Katana sounds great at home, but struggles with a full band.

... That could be because I'm only giving it 1/4 volume out of the ME-80 TS to keep clean / OD levels the same.

flying_pie

AdamHarkusBlog said:

I know the effect isnt' the same as a real TS into a tube amp, but ballpark is all I'm really after.

Another thought - Why not just use the Ts effect in the Katana through tone studio? 

guitarfishbay

flying_pie said:

You can use it differently depending on the parameters and how the amp is set up. There are 4 basic ways you can use it. 
..
3. METAL!!! TS works well into a crunchy or distorted amp to get a heavier tone. You'd use the volume to push the amp more with low gain on the pedal, so it's more of a clean boost than OD. 

Just as a comment on this, it's not the only way to use a TS for this purpose.

I often use a TS for tight metal sounds and I generally use it around unity, with the drive on 0, and tone to taste (though generally 12:00 or higher).  I don’t generally add volume from the pedal if the amp saturation sounds decent without the pedal.

Most modern high gain amps already have enough gain, so using the Tubescreamer is specifically to change the response by cutting the bass and boosting mids before the heavier distortion occurs.

For really modern super tight sounds you'd potentially run the tone knob quite high in this scenario. 

AdamHarkusBlog

..... Because it's a Katana 50...

If I use the TS i cant' manually switch out a MOD effect etc (long story).

I prefer running it clean and control FX through the ME-80.

AdamHarkusBlog

guitarfishbay said:

flying_pie said:

You can use it differently depending on the parameters and how the amp is set up. There are 4 basic ways you can use it. 
..
3. METAL!!! TS works well into a crunchy or distorted amp to get a heavier tone. You'd use the volume to push the amp more with low gain on the pedal, so it's more of a clean boost than OD. 

Just as a comment on this, it's not the only way to use a TS for this purpose.

I often use a TS for tight metal sounds and I generally use it around unity, with the drive on 0, and tone to taste (though generally 12:00 or higher).  I don’t generally add volume from the pedal if the amp saturation sounds decent without the pedal.

Most modern high gain amps already have enough gain, so using the Tubescreamer is specifically to change the response by cutting the bass and boosting mids before the heavier distortion occurs.

For really modern super tight sounds you'd potentially run the tone knob quite high in this scenario. 

Yeah I've read its also great for this... My application is just nice dynamic medium OD for rock n roll, indie, rock, nothing too drastic.

flying_pie

ICBM said:

flying_pie said:

The simulation won't have the same effect as a Ts 808 pedal with a big mid bump.

It will if the simulation is accurate. I haven't tried the ME-80, but the one on the ME-50 is pretty close.

My Boss GT 100 TS effect sounds nothing like the TS 808 pedal I used to own. I've always assumed it was a generic TS 9 type effect 

guitarfishbay

The exception is Dual Rectifiers, which can be quite loose with the amp gain run higher.

Generally with the TS in this scenario I’d use a tiny amount of drive, and a bit more level, so that the amp gain can be kept in a sweet spot where it isn’t so loose.

Dual Recs are thought of as high gain metal amps but most metal players will use a TS with them in order to get them to sound (Modern) metal. They’re amazing amps in the right situation, and can do a lot of sounds especially if you also have a TS or similar.

Lestratcaster

I use a TS9 with my 6505+ and it tightens up that flubby low end. I run the pre-gain (red channel) on the amp at 3.5 and then set up the pedal tone at noon, the knob on the left all the way down and the one on the right about 3 o'clock.

ICBM

flying_pie said:

My Boss GT 100 TS effect sounds nothing like the TS 808 pedal I used to own. I've always assumed it was a generic TS 9 type effect 

The TS-808 and TS-9 sound identical, beyond component tolerance/drift variations between individual examples.

Whether the GT100 simulation is accurate, I have no idea... never tried one.

flying_pie

ICBM said:

flying_pie said:

My Boss GT 100 TS effect sounds nothing like the TS 808 pedal I used to own. I've always assumed it was a generic TS 9 type effect 

The TS-808 and TS-9 sound identical, beyond component tolerance/drift variations between individual examples.

Whether the GT100 simulation is accurate, I have no idea... never tried one.

Just watched the Wampler video on the subject. Thanks for correcting me. 

But my GT 100 and the individual TS 808 I used to own do sound different. 

ICBM

flying_pie said:

Just watched the Wampler video on the subject.

For anyone who hasn't seen it...



This is a really excellent video.

I love his 'test rig' . I like testing stuff like this with direct switching as well, it's the best way to check if there are real differences or not.

flying_pie said:

But my GT 100 and the individual TS 808 I used to own do sound different. 

I don't doubt that at all .

The one in the ME-50 isn't exactly the same as a TS pedal either, but it does have the classic TS mid hump and is roughly in the same ball park otherwise. There can be quite a difference between different versions of the 'same' modelling - I've tried a ME-70, which to me sounded much thinner than the ME-50 on pretty much any settings. I haven't tried the ME-80 or GT-100 though.

57Deluxe

Seriously, if you can't find a good setting with your TS that works for you then is the amp that is the problem.

peteri

It might be worth looking out the 'That Pedal Show' episode they did ages ago on headroom and compression.

Reading your initial post - you need to get your amp either compressing or right on the edge of compression and then use the TS to push it over that edge.

Into an amp with a load of headroom - you've really got to use the TS with the volume at unity and just get the drive from the pedal, it's a sound - but likely not the one you're associating with the pedal.

And I agree - you really need to get the amp right first, a TS is a wonderful pedal - but it's an enhancer

AdamHarkusBlog

That's the problem...

With the TS at unity, it creating a lot more volume that the bypassed clean amp... So add gain on top gets REALLY out of hand.

Backing off the Volume and increasing the gain. = NO OOMPF!

I thinks it's going to be a case of not using the bypassed tone for me clean,(as it's far too low volume in this setup). and setting up a clean patch on the ME-80 with a comparable level