Will Russia retaliate against US, UK & France?

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Statement by the Ambassador Antonov on the strikes on #Syria: A pre-designed scenario is being implemented. Again, we are being threatened. We warned that such actions will not be left without consequences. All responsibility for them rests with Washington, London and Paris.

I'm not clear on what Russia would do, I doubt they would attack UK/US/French ships and bases

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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 1879
    Well if they do, that's WW3 right there, the Russians don't want WW3 any more than we do, so that is unlikely.

    I would not be surprised by a Cyber Attack though.
    Going out in a pot noodle fuelled Mary Spender bender....
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 4070
    Well if they do, that's WW3 right there, the Russians don't want WW3 any more than we do, so that is unlikely.

    I would not be surprised by a Cyber Attack though.
    I'm surprised at the Russian comments before this though, Putin wants to look like the big tough guy, but I can't see how they could ever risk going through with the threats made

    Russian Ambassador Alexander Zasypkin, in comments broadcast on Tuesday evening, said he was referring to a statement by Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Russian armed forces chief of staff.

    .....

    “If there is a strike by the Americans, then...the missiles will be downed and even the sources from which the missiles were fired,” Zasypkin told Hezbollah’s al-Manar TV, speaking in Arabic. He also said a clash “should be ruled out and therefore we are ready to hold negotiations”
    were Zasypkin's comments authorised?


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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6185
    I'd be amazed if it was anything overt, though if I was a russian oligarch living and former enemy of putin living in the west, I may look to upgrade my personal security...

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31628
    I would expect a determined attempt to shoot down any aircraft over Syria, at the least - that’s clearly within international law as self-defence on behalf of their allies - as well as cruise missiles.

    An attack on ships in international waters would be a major escalation, but if they do I would expect a British or French ship to be the first target rather than American.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 4070
    For anyone unaware, the RAF base at Akrotiri in Cyprus is very close to Syria. as is the military radar tracking station at the top of Mount Olympus.
    Ayia Napa is about 100 miles from Syria

    Here's someone who realised this 2 years ago, but had a rather strange perspective on it:
    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g262055-i9247-k9405336-Air_strikes-Ayia_Napa_Famagusta_District.html
    I'd be more worried about being near an active war zone, rather than noise
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31628
    An attack on Akrotiri would be the Russians starting WWIII - it’s a NATO base in another country. I’m pretty sure they won’t do that.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 4070
    ICBM said:
    An attack on Akrotiri would be the Russians starting WWIII - it’s a NATO base in another country. I’m pretty sure they won’t do that.
    I agree, I just wasn't sure that everyone is aware that there's an RAF base so close to Syria, which means the earlier Russian comments were quite a bold threat. 

    I had thought the Russians were all about acting like a big superpower, and not taking shit from anyone, poisoning who they feel like, etc. Therefore, those comments saying that they will attack seem strange, since they would realistically not be able to go through with those threats 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31628
    Assuming what's coming out of the mainstream news currently is correct, it appears that no Western aircraft were shot down but probably a fair number of missiles were, that some damage may have been done to Assad's facilities but nothing major, and there were no Russian casualties.

    If so, that's probably deuce, advantage Trump. Putin will have to actively raise the stakes to retaliate now.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    Reading the Times it seems Assad or his army used chemical weapons without Russian knowledge. Trump makes his threats the Russians have time to prepare. The allies attack a few installations and airfields. The Russians defend airfields and shoot a few missiles down. No major casualties. Normal service will resume on Monday.

    Russia won't retaliate  as Assad has basically won the war and so there's no advantage to be gained by escalating the situation. I suspect at the first opportunity Assad will be thrown under a bus by the Russians who will install a pro-Russian dictator.

    WW3 is cancelled.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 866
    I think at the very least the World Cup should be boycotted.... To think they are going to now host an international event like that doesn't seem right to me.
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 4070
    Marshall said:
    Assuming the reports are accurate, who could possibly have warned them that an apparent chemical attack in that area was planned. I suppose they must have some reliable contacts in the area?   ;-) 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    Marshall said:

    1. The AP news names a Russian general promoting this theory and offers no actual evidence. 

    2. The Fox links... again, where is the evidence? Simply putting up an assertion on a web page doesn't give us much. 

    3. Globalresearch - long known as a conspiracy website of enormous proportions. 

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch

    4. al-monitor is a decent website but all you're doing is repeating the same assertion by Gerasimov with sod all to back it up. 

    5. UAwire: I'd like to know more about where their stories come from and who publishes them. 

    I'm certainly not stating that you are wrong. But there is a lack of evidence beyond a Russian general with his own agenda's words. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    The Russian's are planning their revenge on the UK. They claim to have 'explosive' material on Tory MPs and Mrs May which will be released this week. Me thinks they are going to try and bring the UK government down. Could have been the plan all along - chemical attack, goad the UK into an attack which creates lots of political problems for May and the turn the screw. The Russian's are masters at misinformation and using social media to change opinion and create turmoil in a country. Ukraine was a good example of this .. now its our turn.

    The left are having a field day at May's expense this morning.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31628
    I may be just paranoid, but the internet has been *really* slow here since yesterday...
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    ICBM said:
    I may be just paranoid, but the internet has been *really* slow here since yesterday...
    Probably Russia .. Putin thinks you're a nuke ... ;-)
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31628
    Fretwired said:

    Probably Russia .. Putin thinks you're a nuke ... ;-)
    I was definitely wondering about the first bit :).

    I would certainly expect a cyber attack to be a possibility now that the opportunity to shoot down Western missiles and planes has passed.

    For what it's worth I don't believe the US that no missiles were shot down - at least one witness in Syria described debris falling after anti-aircraft missiles were launched and seen chasing a target. I suspect only a very small number though, so the Russians will be quite pissed off and definitely looking for a way to hit back.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11052
    ICBM said:
    Fretwired said:

    Probably Russia .. Putin thinks you're a nuke ... ;-)
    I was definitely wondering about the first bit :).

    I would certainly expect a cyber attack to be a possibility now that the opportunity to shoot down Western missiles and planes has passed.

    For what it's worth I don't believe the US that no missiles were shot down - at least one witness in Syria described debris falling after anti-aircraft missiles were launched and seen chasing a target. I suspect only a very small number though, so the Russians will be quite pissed off and definitely looking for a way to hit back.
    If those pesky Russkies dare fuck with my internet and thus my ability to watch several consecutive episodes of Peppa Pig on Milkshake, then I am happy to declare WW3 on them. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • MarshallMarshall Frets: 141
    edited April 15
    Marshall said:

    1. The AP news names a Russian general promoting this theory and offers no actual evidence. 

    2. The Fox links... again, where is the evidence? Simply putting up an assertion on a web page doesn't give us much. 

    3. Globalresearch - long known as a conspiracy website of enormous proportions. 

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch

    4. al-monitor is a decent website but all you're doing is repeating the same assertion by Gerasimov with sod all to back it up. 

    5. UAwire: I'd like to know more about where their stories come from and who publishes them. 

    I'm certainly not stating that you are wrong. But there is a lack of evidence beyond a Russian general with his own agenda's words. 
    The point isn't about whether someone is  `wrong' or even the credibility of any given 'news source' (although anticipating comments of this sort is certainly why I listed the AP article first since this is the source most others would be using). 

    The point IS the date of the listed articles. Not sure how you missed that, but apparently you did as far as the content of your post goes 

    "Truth is treason in the empire of lies” G.Orwell

    Feedback link -  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/133389/marshall#latest

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  • MarshallMarshall Frets: 141
    Fretwired said:
    The Russian's are masters at misinformation and using social media to change opinion and create turmoil in a country.
    No more so than the UK

    "Truth is treason in the empire of lies” G.Orwell

    Feedback link -  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/133389/marshall#latest

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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 5349
    Why do so many on here prefer to believe Russia and Syria rather than the UK, US and France?  Its not like they have any actual professional experience in international politics. So it can only arise from armchair opinion, I guess?
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299

    ICBM said:
    Fretwired said:

    Probably Russia .. Putin thinks you're a nuke ... ;-)
    I was definitely wondering about the first bit :).

    I would certainly expect a cyber attack to be a possibility now that the opportunity to shoot down Western missiles and planes has passed.

    For what it's worth I don't believe the US that no missiles were shot down - at least one witness in Syria described debris falling after anti-aircraft missiles were launched and seen chasing a target. I suspect only a very small number though, so the Russians will be quite pissed off and definitely looking for a way to hit back.
    Who said the Russians fired any missiles? The Syrians have outdated air defence systems. The Russians have state of the art air defence systems. Why give the allies valuable intelligence. The Russians would have known the allies were attacking three targets linked to chemical weapons so I wouldn't be surprised if they stood their systems down and just let them defend their own air bases. Eye witness reports of this sort of thing are unreliable. As the US general that gave the briefing said there will be wreckage of Syrian missiles everywhere.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 4070
    ICBM said:
    Fretwired said:

    Probably Russia .. Putin thinks you're a nuke ... ;-)
    I was definitely wondering about the first bit :).

    I would certainly expect a cyber attack to be a possibility now that the opportunity to shoot down Western missiles and planes has passed.

    For what it's worth I don't believe the US that no missiles were shot down - at least one witness in Syria described debris falling after anti-aircraft missiles were launched and seen chasing a target. I suspect only a very small number though, so the Russians will be quite pissed off and definitely looking for a way to hit back.
    although I would not believe them, it's possible that Syrian/Russian missiles exploded after not finding a target, or chased each other
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 8321
    Chalky said:
    Why do so many on here prefer to believe Russia and Syria rather than the UK, US and France?  Its not like they have any actual professional experience in international politics. So it can only arise from armchair opinion, I guess?
    I don't think there's adequate reason to believe any of them. 

    Most atrocities performed by governments around the world are ignored by the US, the UK and France so to claim air strikes are some kind of humanitarian mission is absolute bollocks. 

    Until our government and allies actually tell the truth about why they bomb some countries and not others then all we have is two groups of inseperable bullshitters. 

    Why would you choose to believe our lot instead of theirs, other than because you just happen to live here and are more familiar with 'our' side of the story? 

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    The truth is out .. Russia has announced that Stormy Daniels was killed in the allied air attack. She secretly visited Syria on a humanitarian mission and was at the alleged chemical weapons plant which she found was a facility for making childrens medicines. The CIA traced her phone and Trump gave the order ..... ;-)

    http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/04/14/stormy-daniels-killed-in-syrian-airstrike/

    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31628
    edited April 15
    p90fool said:
    Chalky said:
    Why do so many on here prefer to believe Russia and Syria rather than the UK, US and France?  Its not like they have any actual professional experience in international politics. So it can only arise from armchair opinion, I guess?
    I don't think there's adequate reason to believe any of them. 

    Most atrocities performed by governments around the world are ignored by the US, the UK and France so to claim air strikes are some kind of humanitarian mission is absolute bollocks. 

    Until our government and allies actually tell the truth about why they bomb some countries and not others then all we have is two groups of inseperable bullshitters. 

    Why would you choose to believe our lot instead of theirs, other than because you just happen to live here and are more familiar with 'our' side of the story?
    This.

    However, one thing is absolutely certain whichever side you believe - the US, the UK and France have just launched a military attack on a country that none of them are at war with, which has not attacked any of them, or allies of any of them, and not as part of a UN-mandated action, or at the request of the recognised government of that country. I think that's a breach of international law.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16299
    edited April 15
    ICBM said:

    This.

    However, one thing is absolutely certain whichever side you believe - the US, the UK and France have just launched a military attack on a country that none of them are at war with, which has not attacked any of them, or allies of any of them, and not as part of a UN-mandated action, or at the request of the recognised government of that country. I think that's a breach of international law.
    It's not clear-cut as Russia can block the UN with its veto. There is a legal framework for military action on humanitarian grounds.

    Geoffrey Robertson QC, international human rights lawyer speaking in 2013 the last time we attacked:

    There has never been any need for a Security Council resolution approving action to stop, punish or deter a crime against humanity.

    Before the UN or League of Nations were established there were well-recognised situations where action was taken against piracy, against slavery.

    More recently, we have action taken by Nato to stop ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. That did not require a UN resolution, which Russia would have blocked.

    However, any force used must be proportionate; it must have the objective of deterring future use of poison gas by the Syrian state. That means very limited military action, probably to close air bases, with the threat of more extensive action to come, if there is further use of poison gas by the state.

    The world cannot ban chemical weapons and then sit idly by while a state uses them to kill civilians.

    However there is a burden of proof on those who wish to use force to establish beyond doubt the culpability of the Syrian state.

     
    It would hinge on France being able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Syria attacked its own people with chemical weapons. I think the force used was proportionate - only sites related to the storage/manufacture of chemical weapons were attacked and sufficient notice of an attack was given so nobody was killed as they had time to leave the area.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • MarshallMarshall Frets: 141
    p90fool said:
    Chalky said:
    Why do so many on here prefer to believe Russia and Syria rather than the UK, US and France?  Its not like they have any actual professional experience in international politics. So it can only arise from armchair opinion, I guess?
    I don't think there's adequate reason to believe any of them. 

    Most atrocities performed by governments around the world are ignored by the US, the UK and France so to claim air strikes are some kind of humanitarian mission is absolute bollocks. 

    Until our government and allies actually tell the truth about why they bomb some countries and not others then all we have is two groups of inseperable bullshitters. 

    Why would you choose to believe our lot instead of theirs, other than because you just happen to live here and are more familiar with 'our' side of the story? 

    what a breath of fresh air..some sanity at last. 

    "Truth is treason in the empire of lies” G.Orwell

    Feedback link -  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/133389/marshall#latest

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  • MarshallMarshall Frets: 141
    ICBM said:
    p90fool said:
    Chalky said:
    Why do so many on here prefer to believe Russia and Syria rather than the UK, US and France?  Its not like they have any actual professional experience in international politics. So it can only arise from armchair opinion, I guess?
    I don't think there's adequate reason to believe any of them. 

    Most atrocities performed by governments around the world are ignored by the US, the UK and France so to claim air strikes are some kind of humanitarian mission is absolute bollocks. 

    Until our government and allies actually tell the truth about why they bomb some countries and not others then all we have is two groups of inseperable bullshitters. 

    Why would you choose to believe our lot instead of theirs, other than because you just happen to live here and are more familiar with 'our' side of the story?
    This.

    However, one thing is absolutely certain whichever side you believe - the US, the UK and France have just launched a military attack on a country that none of them are at war with, which has not attacked any of them, or allies of any of them, and not as part of a UN-mandated action, or at the request of the recognised government of that country. I think that's a breach of international law.
    Precisely.

    In fact the most serious 'war crime' of them all as determined during the Nuremberg Trials post WWII... 

    "Truth is treason in the empire of lies” G.Orwell

    Feedback link -  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/133389/marshall#latest

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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6185
    Marshall said:
    p90fool said:
    Chalky said:
    Why do so many on here prefer to believe Russia and Syria rather than the UK, US and France?  Its not like they have any actual professional experience in international politics. So it can only arise from armchair opinion, I guess?
    I don't think there's adequate reason to believe any of them. 

    Most atrocities performed by governments around the world are ignored by the US, the UK and France so to claim air strikes are some kind of humanitarian mission is absolute bollocks. 

    Until our government and allies actually tell the truth about why they bomb some countries and not others then all we have is two groups of inseperable bullshitters. 

    Why would you choose to believe our lot instead of theirs, other than because you just happen to live here and are more familiar with 'our' side of the story? 

    what a breath of fresh air..some sanity at last. 
    you're clearly new here, we've been talking like this for years. I think you need to wake up, do some research ;)

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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